# End note in books: "About the Type" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484 "2011-02-15T19:19:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/21 "2011-02-16T05:56:55Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Lovely, but your link seems to refer to a colophone as either the printing information at the beginning of the book, opposite the title page (“First printing: November 1949”, etc.) or the printer’s mark (“Simon and Schuster” and the little guy sowing seeds). What I am talking about always appears at the end, and is, perhaps, a special species of colophon just about the type. From the exact same Wikipedia link: > [@](#): > > In publishing, a colophon, is either: > [ul] > [li]A brief description of publication or production notes relevant to the edition, in modern books usually located at the reverse of the title page, but can also sometimes be located at the end of the book, or[/li][li]A printer’s mark or logotype[/li][/ul] Note the underlined portion. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/22 "2011-02-16T06:55:04Z")
I’m another big fan of colophons. It’s partially because I’m fascinated by typography and partially because I’m a trivia geek. I’ve noticed them in the back of a lot of O’Reilly’s computer books. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/23 "2011-02-16T07:21:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I don’t know of any easy sources to look them up. > **[WhatTheFont Font Finder - Identify Fonts by Image](https://www.myfonts.com/pages/whatthefont)** > > Identify fonts with our font finder tool using an image or photo. Upload an image, and we’ll search our collection of over 133,000 fonts for the best match. > **[Identifont - Identify fonts by appearance, find fonts by name](http://www.identifont.com)** > > Identify fonts by appearance, find fonts by name, find picture or symbol fonts, find fonts by designer or publisher. Love colophons, and wish more books had them. There’s been many a time I’ve wondered what font a certain book was set in, and didn’t feel like scanning it in to use one of the resources above. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/24 "2011-02-16T07:58:40Z")
Colophons as we know them have been around for several centuries, and similar items go back to the ancient Middle East. I think their popularity died off for a while with the introduction of computerized typography in the late 60s. I hope they’re making a comeback. ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/25 "2011-02-16T08:23:46Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > From the exact same Wikipedia link: > Quote: > In publishing, a colophon, is either: > A brief description of publication or production notes relevant to the edition, in modern books usually located at the reverse of the title page, but can also sometimes be located at the end of the book, or… > > Note the underlined portion. Please, no finger-wagging. I didn’t say the note I am referring to couldn’t be called a colophon. I was wondering about its special place of honor after the book proper, and where/why this curiosity developed. So far, the best answers presented: it’s a tradition, and a courtesy to other book designers. I still find its placement odd, in that it sort of breaks the spell the author has worked to achieve, but I suppose you could call it a signpost: “Literature is over, close cover and reshelve”. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/26 "2011-02-16T11:10:45Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > So far, the best answers presented: it’s a tradition, and a courtesy to other book designers. I still find its placement odd, in that it sort of breaks the spell the author has worked to achieve, but I suppose you could call it a signpost: “Literature is over, close cover and reshelve”. But plenty of paperbacks have “ads” at the back for other works by the same author, or from the same publisher…? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/27 "2011-02-16T12:23:45Z")
To me, colophons remind me of paperbacks from the 60s. The kind that smelled like old books you’d find in used book stores. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/28 "2011-02-16T12:26:37Z")
I wonder if any of this is related to the credits at the end of a movie. Most of them are entirely reasonable, such as the cast and crew. And a lot of it is included for copyright reasons (like the sources for the music), or for advertising purposes (like “vehicles provided by whoever”). But yesterday I saw a movie, and among the credits was the brand name (and model number, I think) of the machine that they edited the film on. It was such a fleeting notice that I can’t believe that it was there to thank the manufacturers for giving the equipment to the moviemakers at a discounted price. And there are lots of other hard-to-see acknowledgments in the movie credits. What are they for? Could it simply be a strong tradition, like the publisher’s colophon? ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/29 "2011-02-16T12:28:44Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > But plenty of paperbacks have “ads” at the back for other works by the same author, or from the same publisher…? More to the point, for me the colophon is like the credits at the end of a movie. “You’ve enjoyed the entertainment; now here’s a little detail about how it was provided.” (The best analogy, I suppose, would be to the “Technicolor” and “Dolby” logos that come at the very end.) Also, I worked at a small publishing house for some years, and regardless of what Wikipedia says, our colophon always came at the end. Edit: Ninja’ed by Keeve! ---
**Author:** ![Vashbul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Vashbul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vashbul)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/30 "2011-02-16T13:24:48Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I wonder if any of this is related to the credits at the end of a movie. Most of them are entirely reasonable, such as the cast and crew. And a lot of it is included for copyright reasons (like the sources for the music), or for advertising purposes (like “vehicles provided by whoever”). > > But yesterday I saw a movie, and among the credits was the brand name (and model number, I think) of the machine that they edited the film on. It was such a fleeting notice that I can’t believe that it was there to thank the manufacturers for giving the equipment to the moviemakers at a discounted price. And there are lots of other hard-to-see acknowledgments in the movie credits. What are they for? Could it simply be a strong tradition, like the publisher’s colophon? I thlnk a lot of it has to do with the deals made by producers with various service providers including some credit name-check provision. Very little to do with tradition. In older movies, you were lucky if they gave you a cast list at the end. The newest fad in movie credits is something called “Production Babies”, a list of first names (“Lucy, Winston, Unita, Sook-Yin…”) parented by staffers during production. Pixar cartoons always have them. Those babies must have a great union. But I would guess there’s another calculation at play. Every honeywagon driver and assistant broom keeper who gets a credit - and all of their family and friends - is gonna buy a ticket. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/31 "2011-02-16T13:28:08Z")
> [@Vashbul](#): > > Well, thanks. I was wondering about those extended serifs. But where did this come from - who decided that, after reading a 700-page novel, we’d be dying to know about the font as opposed to the paper or binding or design? Well they were right. Not only did you read it, you posted about it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/32 "2011-02-16T13:55:52Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I wonder if any of this is related to the credits at the end of a movie. Movie credits, as **Vashbul** pointed out, involve other factors as well. As for “A Note on the Type” colophons, however, they’re pretty clearly linked to the abovementioned Dwiggins in the second quarter of the 20th century, as many sources [such as this one](http://books.google.com/books?id=SmX7ClYVUlwC&pg=PT36) describe in detail: > [@](#): > > The colophon, headed “A Note on the Type in which This Book is Set”, was a device adapted at Dwiggins’s instigation from private press books as a means of calling the reading public’s attention to a book’s design and manufacturing background. Initially ridiculed by other trade publishers as an affectation, it has since been copied to varying degrees by many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/33 "2011-02-16T17:23:58Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > [www.whatthefont.com](http://www.whatthefont.com) > [www.identifont.com](http://www.identifont.com) > > Love colophons, and wish more books had them. There’s been many a time I’ve wondered what font a certain book was set in, and didn’t feel like scanning it in to use one of the resources above. I can’t keep up with the Internet. It’s amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/34 "2011-02-17T02:02:40Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Just popped in to say that I love typefonts and am always curious about them. I love reading colophons. I don’t particularly love typefonts (i don’t hate them either, but I can’t say I find it all the interesting. But I do understand the craft and artistry that goes into creating them, so I like that the colophon gives this credit and find myself reading them (of course the actual info never gets retained, but I do appreciate the skill). ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/35 "2011-02-17T03:07:55Z")
I looked up Scala and I like it. A very pleasing font to read. [FF Scala OT](http://www.fontshop.com/fonts/downloads/fontfont/ff_scala_ot/) But look at the price! I would love to write some docs in Scala, but it isn’t worth $282 for the set of six, or $54 _à la carte_ ---
**Author:** ![Wogglebug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@Wogglebug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wogglebug)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/36 "2011-02-17T12:31:59Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > I _would_ like to know about paper and bindings and design. I put effort into buying good fonts for my computer, long ago, when I was planning on submitting books for publication. (Figuring any competitive “edge” might matter.) Typesetting (kerning, line spacing, tracking) is as big a factor in readability, so emphasis on type does seem incomplete. Later, it occurred to me that paper quality is at least as likely to make a difference to the impression that a submission made. There’s a recent study suggesting that documents printed on heavy paper are judged more important than those on flimsy paper. _Sigh_ All these are yet more aspects of subtle art more or less swept away by the Internet. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/37 "2011-02-17T16:16:58Z")
> [@Wogglebug](#): > > I put effort into buying good fonts for my computer, long ago, when I was planning on submitting books for publication. (Figuring any competitive “edge” might matter.) Just for the information of anyone who may be considering this: editors want manuscripts submitted in standard manuscript format. Pre-formatting them to look like books is automatic rejection. They won’t even be read. ---
**Author:** ![Lasciel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e79b87/32.png) [@Lasciel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lasciel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/38 "2011-02-17T17:04:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Just for the information of anyone who may be considering this: editors want manuscripts submitted in standard manuscript format. Pre-formatting them to look like books is automatic rejection. They won’t even be read. Yes, but preformatting them in the specific font or font family favored by that particular publishing house may give an aspiring author a subconscious edge - the editors probably won’t think about the font per se, but as they read they WILL notice that it “LOOKS” more like “their style of book” without knowing exactly why. Any legal edge in a hard market, I think. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/39 "2011-02-17T17:42:44Z")
Colophons in the west go back way before print-- this was the spot where the scribe and/or illuminators would get their short say: their names or the date and such. So we could see “This is set in Alpha Grotesk” as the post-1460 version of “Ebbo and Emeterius wrote this at the monastery of Echternach in the praise of God and Duke WIhelm, anno 1050.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484/40 "2011-02-17T17:47:37Z")
> [@Lasciel](#): > > Yes, but preformatting them in the specific font or font family favored by that particular publishing house may give an aspiring author a subconscious edge - the editors probably won’t think about the font per se, but as they read they WILL notice that it “LOOKS” more like “their style of book” without knowing exactly why. > > Any legal edge in a hard market, I think. If you look at actual submission guidelines, they often specify that you use standard font types like Courier or Times New Roman. And that’s what actual working professionals use. The edge they have is that their writing is better. Thinking that a font gives an edge is, sorry, the mark of the amateur. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-note-in-books-about-the-type/571484.md?page=3)