# End of all ends to the religion topic. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 28, 1999, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798 "1999-09-28T21:44:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 1999, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/21 "1999-09-30T12:06:00Z")
By the way, my wife has a foolproof way of dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons who come door-to-door. She just witnesses to them as an evangelical Episcopalian until they get nervous and leave. (Except for one nice duo of Mormons who stuck around and ended up having a prayer service with us, which left everybody with a good feeling about the experience.) ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/22 "1999-10-01T00:01:00Z")
I have a more foolproof way of dealing with those door-to-door evangelists: I close the door. ---
**Author:** ![neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3ab097/32.png) [@neuro-trash\_grrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neuro-trash_grrrl)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/23 "1999-10-01T01:45:00Z")
Oh, for (insert deity here)'s sake, it’s you again. Pally, I don’t know how to break this to you, but your logic is faulty. What, somebody already said that? Yes, I know, but it didn’t seem to faze you the other twenty times that was pointed out. Oh, well. Hope springs eternal. Anyway, we were talking about logic. Now, another poster pointed out that “if C then H” is true, then “if not C then not H” could also be true. That is correct, it could, but it isn’t necessarily. That is the converse\* of the statement, and the converse is never equivalent to the statement (which is to say, if one is true, the other does not necessarily have to be). The only thing that is equivalent to the statement is the contrapositive: If not H then not C. All you’ve proven is that if you don’t get into heaven, you must not be a Christian. What a quantum leap! And that’s fine with me, because I’m not Christian, and I’m not going to heaven. And you know something else? (That was a rhetorical question, we already know the answer…) Your End of all Ends didn’t work! I don’t know what you’re trying to do here. Are you trying to rewrite the Bible? Good, I’ll be waiting for the Palidors Edition to hit the bookstores. In it, there will be so much of a vacuum of wisdom and learning that you’ll set religion back centuries, back when they burned heretics at the stake! Of course, they’d be burning me right along with you, but it would be worth it just to see the expression on your face when you realize you’re not the prophet you think you are. \*Or was it the inverse? I always get those two mixed up. Whichever one it is, they’re still not equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![\_00\_The\_Fool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/_/ed655f/32.png) [@\_00\_The\_Fool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/_00_The_Fool)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/24 "1999-10-01T02:20:00Z")
“End of all ends to the religion topic,” eh? Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/25 "1999-10-01T09:42:00Z")
Actually, the most foolproof way of avoiding door-to-door evangelists is not opening the door in the first place. * * * There’s always another beer. ---
**Author:** ![kellibelli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e480ec/32.png) [@kellibelli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellibelli)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/26 "1999-10-01T12:24:00Z")
_WHY_ are you guys playing his game? **throws hands up in frustration** ---
**Author:** ![AuraSeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AuraSeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuraSeer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 1999, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/27 "1999-10-01T14:44:00Z")
Since we’re talking about how to avoid evangelists… I never had any Jehovah’s Witnesses show up at my parents’ house, and no one else in the neighborhood has seen them either. Legend says that they had only come to the area once, just after all the houses were built; at the first house they went to, they got shot at, so they decided not to come back. Most people in the neighborhood believe this, especially because they have a low opinion of the supposed gun-wielder. But IMO, a more likely cause is that the area still doesn’t appear on most maps. (Last time I checked, it was labelled as part of a state park. This was about 10 years after the houses went up.) * * * Laugh hard; it’s a long way to the bank. ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/28 "1999-10-02T01:22:00Z")
Hey, I’ve finally gotten people to notice me! Of course, both of them noticed I’d screwed up, but I’ll take negative attention too… Anyway: 1. When I refferred to the Old Testament being mostly about Jesus, yes, I did mean the new testament, I was tired. College has done that to me. 2. And then another poster pointed out that if ~C then ~H is not necessarilly true. I think I meant to point that out, but I only said that it could be true. 3. If ~C then ~H is the inverse of if C then H. The converse, which is always true if the given statement is true, is If ~H then ~C. My brother had a good story about getting rid of evangelists. He was in the Air Force, and it may interest you to know that the only thing the military doesn’t really restrict is drinking (my brother says it’s a form of control, but I digress…). Anyway, my brother had been out drinking with friends, and had come home and passed out on the couch. He woke up to the ringing of the doorbell. He opened the door to a couple of Jehova’s Witnesses. He was unshaved, bleary-eyed, eyes bloodshot, hair amuss, and wearing only boxers and an undershirt. Their eyes positively lit up when they saw him, “A SINNER!” They started in evangelizing. He just stared at them, tried to keep them in focus, and dealt with his horrible headache. Then the little old lady (she had her strapping young son with her to defend her from those nasty soldiers. er, airmen) pulled out a piece of posterboard with one of those pictures on it. You know the ones I’m talking about, little blond-haired chubby cherubic children (alliteration points!) running around in mini-togas with lions and tigers and lambs in one of the common misconceptions of a peaceful nature scene (somehow, those sunny meadows always have a tree in them for shade). She said, “Have you thought about the coming of the kingdom of Heaven? You know, King-DOME? Like a dome? Only certain people will be covered by it.” Then my brother looked straight at her and said, “No, I hadn’t thought about it like that, because Kingdom comes from an old Celtic word and has absolutely nothing to do with a dome, and if you think that when the kingdom of heaven descends that we’ll still be wearing our Earthly forms, then you’d better rethink the concept.” Then he slammed the door in their faces, took a few Aspirin, and crawled into bed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/29 "1999-10-02T04:30:00Z")
Surgoshan Member posted 09-28-1999 10:27 PM [quote] Hell? It’s not mentioned in the Bible. [/quot] Well, ther is that story about the rich guy who never helped the poor who ended up in a place of “much wailing and grinding of teeth”. Granted, this may not actually be hell (“just” the DMV?), and it was a parable, but it’s close enough for most folks. * * * -Ryan " ‘Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity. Their content did not matter.’ " -Kurt Vonnegut, \* Breakfast of Champions \* ---
**Author:** ![Cabbage](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@Cabbage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cabbage)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/30 "1999-10-02T05:43:00Z")
Actually, for the quick lesson in logic: If C, then H–original statement. If ~H, then ~C–contrapositive. If H, then C–converse. If ~C, then ~H–inverse. The original statement and contrapositive are logically equivalent, as are the converse and inverse. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/31 "1999-10-02T11:32:00Z")
I have it on good authority (my Governor, Jesse Ventura, in this month’s Playboy) that organized religion is for “weak minded people who can’t think for themselves.” Of course, he also believes that the military-industrial complex killed Kennedy. Also, if he’s ever reincarnated, he says he wants to come back as a 38 DD bra. He also thinks that Tailhook was no big deal; that the fighter pilots should be expected to do that sort of thing and that the women they groped should “get over it.” Now, how could anyone contradict him? ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/32 "1999-10-02T12:01:00Z")
Ya know, I heard first about his statements on religion and thought, “Wow! Good answer!” Then I heard the other stuff and said, “Wow! What an idiot!” \< sigh \> ---
**Author:** ![WallyM7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5e925/32.png) [@WallyM7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WallyM7)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 1999, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/33 "1999-10-02T21:37:00Z")
Rysdad, who voted this moron into office? Martin Luther King offed JFK. And paid for it with his own life, when he was assassinated by Sirhan. Ray was merely a dupe of the D.A.R. Get current, people. * * * According to the Pope, a woman can be a saint, but not a priest. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 1999, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/34 "1999-10-04T18:06:00Z")
And did you draw any conclusions from that about his first statement, David? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![copy\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb9ed0/32.png) [@copy\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copy_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 1999, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/35 "1999-10-06T00:03:00Z")
I liked Surgoshan’s story about getting rid of Jehovah’s Witnesses. My cousin Dave, an atheist, while drafted into the military got rid of a few rabid Baptist co-workers in a novel way. He politely listened to their conversion efforts for a awhile, nodding seriously, then suddenly checked his watch, jumped up, unrolled a small rug, knelt on it facing in, and prostrated himself on a floor for a few minutes. Then he arose, seated himself again, and inquired politely, “You were saying?” They left and didn’t try again. ---
**Author:** ![copy\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb9ed0/32.png) [@copy\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/copy_ed)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 1999, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/36 "1999-10-06T00:05:00Z")
Of course I meant “facing east.” And I call myself a copy ed! ---
**Author:** ![Surgoshan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Surgoshan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surgoshan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 1999, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798/37 "1999-10-06T01:21:00Z")
Of course, if I end up being harassed by the religious right, I’ll invite them into my living room (I know you think it’s a bad idea), sit them down on my sofa, listen to them a few minutes, then excuse myself for a few moments. I’ll walk out of the room, and when I return, I’ll have a shotgun and a box of shells. I’ll sit down on the carpet and carefully clean and load it. Then I’ll calmly ask them not to bother me any more. Of course, that presupposes that: a) I’ll be bothered by the fanatics and b) I’ll own a shotgun But it’s a nice fantasy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-all-ends-to-the-religion-topic/16798.md?page=1)