# End of It's a Wonderful Life - Is George still in trouble?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [December 26, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215 "2012-12-26T20:20:19Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/21 "2012-12-27T02:09:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Of course that isn’t legal - that’s theft of money that doesn’t belong to me.
>
> But suppose Uncle Billy had lost the money and George had been able to sell his house in a single day for eight thousand dollars in order to replace the missing money. Would the bank examiners care that the original eight thousand dollars was gone at that point? No, as long as a replacement eight thousand dollars was there to balance the books.
Of course, given what I’ve said before, I wouldn’t agree with you that the situation would all be over once George sold the house. The question still remains: What did Uncle Billy do with the money?
You and I know what happened. The investigators don’t.
As you pointed out, the taking of money isn’t legal in my example\*. But my point is that as the examiners etc in the film know, they’re in exactly the same kind of situation. All they know is, some money disappeared from where it was supposed to be. The fact that someone donated the same amount later on isn’t relevant to the question of what happened to the money in the first place. They need to know what happened. Hence the investigation continues. If an arrest was about to take place, nothing has happened that would cause it not to take place.
\*And to address what you said more directly–recall that you were supposed to be defending the position that the investigators wouldn’t care where the money came from so long as it’s there in the end. But in the situation I described, the money is there in the end and yet the relevant investigators care very specifically about where that money came from.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/22 "2012-12-27T02:30:30Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#):
>
> My problem with the ending is that George’s family (his uncle in particular) should have been recording who gave how much money, so they could be reimbursed if and when the original $8,000 was recovered.
In Capra’s universe, they would just ask everyone how much they gave and they would tell them exactly how much it was. Most people are honest.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/23 "2012-12-27T03:25:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> There’s also the telegram from Sam Wainwright where he promises to contribute any money needed to keep the bank going.
Up to $25,000 to be made available immediately, IIRC. And that raises another question: Sam’s going to cover the entire amount, but _still_ people are throwing money at George. Why don’t they all just say, “Ah, good show,” take their money back and party all night at the Bailey house?
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/24 "2012-12-27T03:54:23Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> Up to $25,000 to be made available immediately, IIRC. And that raises another question: Sam’s going to cover the entire amount, but _still_ people are throwing money at George. Why don’t they all just say, “Ah, good show,” take their money back and party all night at the Bailey house?
Because it was important to all of them to stand by George in his moment of need. Sam’s never gonna have to chip in a dime if he doesn’t want to.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/25 "2012-12-27T05:01:25Z")
I’d still want my cash back.
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### Author:  [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/26 "2012-12-27T15:16:54Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I’d still want my cash back.
Well **Siam Sam** , you know that’s not how it works. You’re money’s in the loan to Ernie’s home. And Ernie’s money is being used to help fund Bert’s house. We don’t keep all of the money here.
Now just sign for your money and you can get it in 60 days like your agreement says.
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### Author:  [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/27 "2012-12-27T16:00:59Z")
The fact that the whole town showed up to support George in his hour of need is a testament, in the eyes of the bank examiner and sheriff, to George’s honesty and fair dealing.
Besides, where in that town would you find a jury to convict him?
(I like the SNL ending, where Uncle Billy remembers what happened to the money and everyone in town goes to Potter’s office and beats the snot out of him.)
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/28 "2012-12-27T17:07:00Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#):
>
> I like the SNL ending, where Uncle Billy remembers what happened to the money and everyone in town goes to Potter’s office and beats the snot out of him.)
Which is so well remembered that many people are under the impression that that was an alternate ending of the movie.
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/29 "2012-12-27T17:48:00Z")
Keep in mind that, generally speaking, eight thousand wouldn’t get you an arrest warrant without actual _evidence_ of embezzlement. It might get an investigation, but in this case Uncle Billy is going to out and out say, “I flat lost it” and hundreds of people will swear on a stack of bibles that both he and George are trustworthy and living well within their means.
It’s likely the implication that everyone knew flat out that Potter was pushing hard to get George arrested, and knew exactly why. Given an excuse, the responsible parties nodded and said, “Obviously nothing wrong here.” In any case, George can prove he didn’t steal anything so the law isn’t going anywhere.
Which is largely the point of the film. George was _never_ stuck in an unfair position without hope. The people coming to his defense weren’t just putting their money on the line, they were putting their word and reputations as well. George would make his payment and have enough character witnesses to choke a court dead, and the fact that they would do so completely stopped Potter cold.
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### Author:  [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/30 "2012-12-27T19:42:00Z")
> [@Rachellelogram](#):
>
> As I recall, Uncle Billy accidentally left the money envelope in a newspaper at the bank. Potter found the newspaper with the money inside, knew immediately what it was for, and pocketed it. Potter’s right-hand man (the guy who pushes his wheelchair and presumably wipes his arse, poor guy) witnessed the whole thing.
>
> When I was a kid married to notions of truth and justice, I fantasized that the assistant squealed on Potter after the fact. Of course, he’d be jeopardizing his own livelihood in so doing. As a jaded adult, I’m confident it would never happen.
This is the sad point that always sticks in my mind. Potter stole the money and got away with it so cleanly that it wasn’t even worth addressing the point again in the movie. Yes, all the poor working peolpe are noble and pull together in hardship but the wealthy just take large sums of money and it’s not even worth bothering to try to stop it. What a message.
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### Author:  [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/31 "2012-12-27T19:47:04Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> Which is largely the point of the film. George was _never_ stuck in an unfair position without hope. The people coming to his defense weren’t just putting their money on the line, they were putting their word and reputations as well. George would make his payment and have enough character witnesses to choke a court dead, and the fact that they would do so completely stopped Potter cold.
Right. Something intangible, George’s reputation that had been built up over the course of a lifetime, was worth more than money. Still, it would be nice if the good people of Bedford Falls could get their $8,000 back.
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### Author:  [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/32 "2012-12-27T21:47:55Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#):
>
> Keep in mind that, generally speaking, eight thousand wouldn’t get you an arrest warrant without actual _evidence_ of embezzlement. It might get an investigation, but in this case Uncle Billy is going to out and out say, “I flat lost it” and hundreds of people will swear on a stack of bibles that both he and George are trustworthy and living well within their means.
>
> It’s likely the implication that everyone knew flat out that Potter was pushing hard to get George arrested, and knew exactly why. Given an excuse, the responsible parties nodded and said, “Obviously nothing wrong here.” In any case, George can prove he didn’t steal anything so the law isn’t going anywhere.
>
> Which is largely the point of the film. George was _never_ stuck in an unfair position without hope. The people coming to his defense weren’t just putting their money on the line, they were putting their word and reputations as well. George would make his payment and have enough character witnesses to choke a court dead, and the fact that they would do so completely stopped Potter cold.
Good points all. I should clarify that I have been arguing George still would (or, legally, should) be arrested, but I haven’t meant to say he would or should be convicted.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/33 "2012-12-27T22:53:47Z")
Since at this point this is more about plot points from the movie than the legal issues involved, let’s move it over to Cafe Society.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/34 "2012-12-27T22:59:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#):
>
> Why? As far as the bank examiners are concerned, they’re only interested in the bottom line - if the money that’s on record is accounted for when they look for it, they don’t care where it came from.
>
> The fact that the money was missing at one point is just an internal matter for the company to handle. George knows Uncle Billy lost eight thousand dollars of the company’s money, so he can fire Uncle Billy if he chooses. But the bank examiners aren’t going to care.
>
> Potter’s in the same position as the bank examiners. He can only officially complain if the books don’t balance. If he had enough votes to otherwise influence the way the company was run, he’d have fired George long ago.
I deal with bank examiners on a regular basis and I can assure you that they care about far more than the bottom line. From computer security to personnel issues, they care about it and there’s nothing I can say to them to make them not care.
George would still be screwed.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [December 27, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/35 "2012-12-27T23:01:52Z")
Frank Capra conceded in an interview, some years later, that yes, Potter got to keep the $8k, but that it would never make him happy and he would never have the esteem of his neighbors the way George Bailey did. Life is about so much more than money.
And here’s the SNL “lost ending” to the movie: [http://www.hulu.com/watch/4267](http://www.hulu.com/watch/4267)
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/36 "2012-12-28T02:43:16Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#):
>
> Well **Siam Sam** , you know that’s not how it works. You’re money’s in the loan to Ernie’s home. And Ernie’s money is being used to help fund Bert’s house. We don’t keep all of the money here.
>
> Now just sign for your money and you can get it in 60 days like your agreement says.
I’m selling to Potter!
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/37 "2012-12-28T03:04:00Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> Frank Capra conceded in an interview, some years later, that yes, Potter got to keep the $8k, but that it would never make him happy and he would never have the esteem of his neighbors the way George Bailey did. Life is about so much more than money.
>
> And here’s the SNL “lost ending” to the movie: [Stream Live Sports, News, TV Shows, and Movies | Hulu + Live TV](http://www.hulu.com/watch/4267)
I can’t see it, but assume it’s the same one I saw years ago – it’s funny how Dana Carvey always tended to portray Jimmy Stewart as a mean, vindictive old coot. Did that derive from Stewart’s behind the scenes reputation in some way, or was it funny because it was such a polar opposite of the real man?
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### Author:  [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/38 "2012-12-28T03:11:07Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> I can’t see it, but assume it’s the same one I saw years ago – it’s funny how Dana Carvey always tended to portray Jimmy Stewart as a mean, vindictive old coot. Did that derive from Stewart’s behind the scenes reputation in some way, or was it funny because it was such a polar opposite of the real man?
According to wiki
> [@](#):
>
> Stewart was almost universally described by his collaborators as a kind, soft-spoken man and a true professional.
I’m going to belive it no matter what.
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### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/39 "2012-12-28T03:38:09Z")
The person who should fear prosecution is George Bailey’s wife (for murder and witchcraft).
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [December 28, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-of-its-a-wonderful-life-is-george-still-in-trouble/645215/40 "2012-12-28T03:43:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#):
>
> The person who should fear prosecution is George Bailey’s wife (for murder and witchcraft).
I don’t get the joke.
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