# End origination fees on student loans **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2015, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523 "2015-12-15T12:34:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/21 "2015-12-18T15:58:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you believed that colleges only taught dance, that would be a reasonable metaphor. But nobody who has actually been to a college believes that. Yes, some of the value of a degree is that it looks nice on a resume. Believe it or not, however, they do actually teach students too. Where the analogy breaks down is that being a better dancer does not mean you will be a better government minister. However being a college graduate probably means you will be a better worker. This is because graduating college means you were smart enough to get in and understand the material. It also means you are conscientious enough to go to class and study for four years. Thus the diploma signals you are a better worker and you should get paid more. What this means is that college is useful for telling good workers from bad but that making more people go to college is useless for society because it just waters down the credential. Another analogy is cars. Women like men who drive Mercedes because it signals the man has lots of money. However, if the government provided subsidized Mercedes to everyone it would no longer help men get dates because the signal would no longer mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/22 "2015-12-18T16:22:21Z")
You seem to be lost in your own metaphor. Colleges do not actually _teach_ dancing. Well, some do, but that’s not the point. They teach skills and information which are actually relevant to being a government minister. Similarly, a Mercedes has positive attributes beyond just being expensive; it will ride and handle better than other cars, be better built, hold its value, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/23 "2015-12-21T00:15:20Z")
Mercedes are expensive cars for people who arent interested in cars. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/24 "2015-12-21T17:02:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You seem to be lost in your own metaphor. Colleges do not actually _teach_ dancing. Well, some do, but that’s not the point. They teach skills and information which are actually relevant to being a government minister. Similarly, a Mercedes has positive attributes beyond just being expensive; it will ride and handle better than other cars, be better built, hold its value, and so on. My metaphors seem to be more obtuse than illuminating. Let me make it clearer. Different jobs need different levels of intelligence and conscientiousness. Those which need the highest levels pay more than those at the bottom level. Employers need a way to rank prospective employees by intelligence and conscientiousness. They do this via college degree. A degree from a prestigious institution means you are in the top 5% of workers. A bachelors degree means you are in the top 25% of workers. The value of college does not lie in what people learn there, for the most part, it lies in the credential that says the graduate is one of the best available workers. This is positive for the economy in that it reduces search times for companies. However, if you get more people to go to college and graduate college, it would not help companies find good workers but just lessen the signal of the credential. Final analogy, I want the top 10% of the tallest people in school for my basketball team. Giving everybody in the school stilts is not going to serve any purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/25 "2015-12-21T17:08:26Z")
Well, it’s not just the metaphor. The underlying argument is wrong. Find me an employer - any employer - who says the only reason they require a college degree is because it indicates intelligence and conscientiousness. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/26 "2015-12-21T17:11:19Z")
You’re assuming that the best and brightest were already among the set able to afford college. Why would one assume that? You’re also assuming that it’s impossible for one to become better suited for a job. Again, I’m unsure of the reason. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/27 "2015-12-21T20:35:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, it’s not just the metaphor. The underlying argument is wrong. Find me an employer - any employer - who says the only reason they require a college degree is because it indicates intelligence and conscientiousness. [Here](http://www.reliableplant.com/Read/11307/education-vs-experience)is an article by John Ha, the president of Reliability Careers. "First, let’s examine why employers prefer college degrees. Most often, they associate the following characteristics with people who have degrees (and more specifically, four-year degrees): A proven ability to analyze problems, conduct research and produce solutions A proven ability to learn complex, difficult subject matter Proof they are motivated and have drive Proof of intelligence Better interpersonal skills More credible qualifications" ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523/28 "2015-12-21T21:28:31Z")
Didn’t read the rest of that article, did you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-origination-fees-on-student-loans/740523.md?page=1)