# End the US de facto ban on horse slaughterhouses **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2011, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719 "2011-10-25T07:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/21 "2011-10-25T18:43:23Z")
Yeah. I’m asking the OP. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/22 "2011-10-25T18:59:04Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t think it’s stupid at all. It has to do with the relationship we have with horses (and dogs and cats) which is different from than the relationship we have with cows, pigs. i.e. Cows and pigs were bred specifically for food whereas dogs, cats and horses were bred (for the most part) as companions who performed useful tasks for us. Some fish are bred as companions/pets. Goldfish are a form of carp. Lots of people eat carp. Should they not? > [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Actually that’s not the same, in my eyes. I’m reasonably sure that dolphins are sapient, whereas tuna probably aren’t. Next thing someone will come along and say they have a soul. I just don’t get the irrational point of view about the “relationship” we have with certain animals. Horses are beautiful animals so it’s wrong to eat them. It’s icky to eat a cat so we shouldn’t allow it. I happen to think eating a squid is pretty gross, but I think it should be perfectly legal. Horses, cats, dogs, rats, bats, etc.. As long as an animal is not endangered and the breeding/slaughtering is done humanely I see no reason why there should be any prohibition in this country against their meat being commercially available. ---
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/23 "2011-10-25T19:55:30Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Horses can negotiate complex courses jumping high fences with a kid you love on their backs. Cows, not so much. [Au contraire.](http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/05/german-teen-regina-mayer-rides-cow-like-a-horse/) So, by your logic, people shouldn’t eat cows, either. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/24 "2011-10-25T20:00:31Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Same here. I remember it as being pretty good. Yeah, it’s got quite a strong taste, but it’s actually quite nice. Same with whale meat. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/25 "2011-10-25T20:06:01Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > [Au contraire.](http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/05/german-teen-regina-mayer-rides-cow-like-a-horse/) So, by your logic, people shouldn’t eat cows, either. Read the post your replying to before you reply: > [@Voyager](#): > > I have no ethical problems with horse meat at all. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/26 "2011-10-25T20:21:29Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Not here in British Columbia. In fact I’ve never seen it on the shelves or eaten it in my 61 years and living in four different provinces. I do vaguely recall a news story several years ago where seal meat was on a parliamentary resataurant menu in Ottawa in response to the European clamour against Canadian seal products. > > In any event I don’t see seals any near on the same plane as dogs and dolphins. PM me and I’ll send you some, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/27 "2011-10-25T20:30:15Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > [Au contraire.](http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/05/german-teen-regina-mayer-rides-cow-like-a-horse/) So, by your logic, people shouldn’t eat cows, either. BTW, I’ve never noticed a lot of horse people being vegetarians. Maybe there are, but the normal hot dog/hamburger stands at shows do a pretty good business. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/28 "2011-10-25T20:45:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Actually that’s not the same, in my eyes. I’m reasonably sure that dolphins are sapient, whereas tuna probably aren’t. The word you are looking for is “sentient”. As for horses and smarts, pigs are almost certainly smarter than horses. In the West, we are just not used to seeing them as food items (although maybe more so in Europe). It’s purely an “ick” factor thing. I’ve had horse sashimi in Japan. I wasn’t crazy about it, but I wasn’t opposed to eating it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/29 "2011-10-25T20:50:01Z")
> [@Turek](#): > > [Au contraire.](http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/05/german-teen-regina-mayer-rides-cow-like-a-horse/) So, by your logic, people shouldn’t eat cows, either. Dontcha mean “Cow contraire”? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/30 "2011-10-25T21:11:48Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I don’t think it’s stupid at all. It has to do with the relationship we have with horses (and dogs and cats) which is different from than the relationship we have with cows, pigs… > [@kayaker](#): > > 1. Is there a market for horse? > > 2. Where horse is eaten, is there a market for foal? (Like there is for veal) > > 3. Where horse is routinely eaten, what does it cost compared to beef, chicken, goat, etc? Wikipedia addresses some of these issues in their horse meat article. The stuff is taboo in the US, but not in France or Japan. It is no longer put in dog food, partly because it fetches a better price abroad, mostly because the practice was banned in the US during the 1970s. [Horse meat - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_meat) > [@Voyager](#): > > The problem with horse abandonment has nothing to do with slaughtering, and everything to do with the economy. Horses are expensive, and in the current climate more people with horses can’t afford them, and horses are very difficult to sell. The NYT article argued that slaughterhouses put a floor on the price of horses. If they still existed in the US, horses wouldn’t be so difficult to sell. So while the economy has played a role, so has the slaughterhouse ban. Really Not All That Bright: I’d like to reflect more on the dog issue. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/31 "2011-10-25T21:16:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The word you are looking for is “sentient”. No, it isn’t. We’re not in a Star Trek novel. _Sentient_ means able to perceive or feel things; it applies pretty much to all mammals. _Sapient_ means capable of acting with thought or judgment. And I don’t deny that pigs are sapient, by the way. They’re at least as smart as dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/32 "2011-10-25T21:19:06Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Its really stretching it to put cats on the same plane as dogs. Cats are more like rabbits than dogs and I used to eat plenty of rabbit in the old days. My dad ate cats during the second world war. So? Plenty of people in this world eat dogs too. Are you intimating that dogs have, for lack of a better concept, “personality” and as such we shouldn’t eat them? Personally, my cats have plenty of personality, and absolutely are on the same plane as any dog. Rabbit owners would probably say the same thing of their bun pets. You may not like cats, and that’s fine. I just think it’s likely that any biases we have as to what is and is not a meat animal are bound up in culture instead of anything else. When an idea violates those biases, we cover up our recoil by hiding it behind misguided notions of what constitutes intelligence or sapience in animals that really don’t make any sense. I’m not interested in eating cat, or dog, or horse either, but I think \*\*pkbites \*\*and \*\*Ascenray \*\*have the right of it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/33 "2011-10-25T21:23:25Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No, it isn’t. We’re not in a Star Trek novel. > > _Sentient_ means able to perceive or feel things; it applies pretty much to all mammals. _Sapient_ means capable of acting with thought or judgment. > > And I don’t deny that pigs are sapient, by the way. They’re at least as smart as dogs. OK, then you’re wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/34 "2011-10-25T21:38:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > OK, then you’re wrong. About what? Are you denying that there are non-human animals that can act with thought, or something else? I’m not saying that dolphins, pigs, dogs, chimps, or horses have HUMAN intellect. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/35 "2011-10-25T21:40:27Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Here in Canada we have tinned and fresh seal meat readily available, as you should already know, **Dutch**. > > I’d send some to y’all in the US, but it might be confiscated. I’ve got some in my kitchen cabinet, which is located in New York City. But then I live with a Newfoundlander, who is my source for all things Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/36 "2011-10-25T21:48:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > About what? Are you denying that there are non-human animals that can act with thought, or something else? > > I’m not saying that dolphins, pigs, dogs, chimps, or horses have HUMAN intellect. Sapient means being wise, not simply being able to act with thought. It would be anthropomorphizing to say a non-human animal is “wise”. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/37 "2011-10-25T23:00:27Z")
Is the beef lobby at all active about keeping horsemeat out of the food system? At least here in the midwest, they’re pretty good at keeping prices high and retail shelving at a minimum for lamb, veal, and other meats that compete with beef and pork. Equines also might pose some competition to bovines in the leather industry. Both horsehide and cowhide are tough and serviceable garment leathers, but horsehide has the edge in elegance and prestige. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/38 "2011-10-25T23:30:47Z")
I’ve had horse. Prefer cow or pig. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/39 "2011-10-25T23:35:03Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > I’ve got some in my kitchen cabinet, which is located in New York City. But then I live with a Newfoundlander, who is my source for all things Canadian. Due to my status as an immigrant to Canada and the Rock, and as I am also married to a Newfoundlander, I am required to ask where she or he is from. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2011, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719/40 "2011-10-25T23:44:55Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Due to my status as an immigrant to Canada and the Rock… What is The Rock, Vancouver Island? I’m assuming because it’s an island and Vancouver is the very model of Soviet Canuckistan-ishness, though I prefer Victoria. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/end-the-us-de-facto-ban-on-horse-slaughterhouses/600719.md?page=3)