# Ender's Game - I just finished it for the first time (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 6, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263 "2010-10-06T15:54:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/61 "2010-10-07T16:59:07Z")
When I read _Ender’s Game_, I remember wishing that I had gotten around to it about a decade earlier. I don’t remember if I had guessed the final twist or not – I think I might have – but in any case, the whole you-thought-it-was-a-test-but-it’s-the-real-thing idea is something that I had seen plenty of times before. It just didn’t particularly wow me. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/62 "2010-10-07T17:26:37Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The first time, he was just lucky (and just kept beating on the kid when he was down). Am I the only person who read that scene and pictured Ralphie and Scut Farkas? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/63 "2010-10-07T18:54:58Z")
I just finished reading it. I thought the Battle School stuff was entertaining enough, but I thought the end was very poignant (“How were we to know? We could live with you in peace.”) I have no interest in reading any of the sequels, though. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/64 "2010-10-07T18:58:44Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > > [@Malthus](#): > > > > The first time, he was just lucky (and just kept beating on the kid when he was down). > > Am I the only person who read that scene and pictured Ralphie and Scut Farkas? That was some BB gun that Ender ended up with … 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tanbarkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@Tanbarkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanbarkie)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/65 "2010-10-07T19:09:24Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I just finished reading it. I thought the Battle School stuff was entertaining enough, but I thought the end was very poignant (“How were we to know? We could live with you in peace.”) Yeah - again, this is why I have such trouble reconciling “1985 Card” with “2000s Card.” The ending of “Ender’s Game” is as close to “Give Peace a Chance” as I’ve ever seen in a science fiction/ war novel. It’s not subtle about this point at all: the entire war was literally the result of humanity’s failure to communicate with their erstwhile nemeses. It’s an outright plea for tolerance. How the man who wrote of the Hive Queen with such empathy turned out to be such an damn-the-negotiations, warmongering bigot with respect to issues of the real world is truly a mystery to me. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/66 "2010-10-07T19:17:10Z")
> [@Tanbarkie](#): > > > [@hogarth](#): > > > > I just finished reading it. I thought the Battle School stuff was entertaining enough, but I thought the end was very poignant (“How were we to know? We could live with you in peace.”) > > Yeah - again, this is why I have such trouble reconciling “1985 Card” with “2000s Card.” The ending of “Ender’s Game” is as close to “Give Peace a Chance” as I’ve ever seen in a science fiction/ war novel. It’s not subtle about this point at all: the entire war was literally the result of humanity’s failure to communicate with their erstwhile nemeses. It’s an outright plea for tolerance. > > How the man who wrote of the Hive Queen with such empathy turned out to be such an damn-the-negotiations, warmongering bigot with respect to issues of the real world is truly a mystery to me. Obviously, the Buggers are simply _cuter_ than folks in the ME. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/67 "2010-10-07T19:38:59Z")
P.S. – I thought the subplot with Ender’s brother and sister taking over the world through the power of political punditry was just plain dumb. P.P.S. – I probably would have liked it better if I read it as a (gifted) kid, although I never was bullied very much. Maybe I would have sympathized most with the kid who said “Hey, if I knew how [to be a leader], you think I’d be like this?” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/68 "2010-10-08T00:55:49Z")
> [@aktep](#): > > Having thought about it this morning, I’ve decided \* Xenocide \* is in fact a work of genius. > > The narrative itself is infected with the descolada! It starts falling apart piece by piece until it’s fully unraveled by the time everyone goes Outside. Now I don’t need to read CotM - clearly it is just 200 pages of random letters. Now, if we could have just figured this out with the speed of the Ansible, it truly would have been worthwhile. I don’t know, I RARELY finish books, and I got all the way up to Shadow Puppets, having read all the books before that cover to cover. Ender’s Shadow has been the only “page turner” I have ever read. Ender pretty much lives with the Moniker of “The Xenocide” so I think it is getting as close as possible to the concept. … And are we REALLY comparing Ender’s Game to A Christmas Story? 😃 Wow. If I Wasn’t already a member here. that would have gone a far way in convincing me to join. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/69 "2010-10-08T00:57:21Z")
Love the Squirrels on that XKCD link. Wink Wink. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/70 "2010-10-08T02:20:11Z")
In the sequel books, does he ever find a planet to grow the bugger queen cocoon and restart their race? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/71 "2010-10-08T02:24:16Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > In the sequel books, does he ever find a planet to grow the bugger queen cocoon and restart their race? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/72 "2010-10-08T02:27:09Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > > [@Mahaloth](#): > > > > In the sequel books, does he ever find a planet to grow the bugger queen cocoon and restart their race? > > Yes. Can someone please spoiler post about this? I’m probably going to go back to the series, but only once in a great while. What book is it in? Do the buggers return and act peacefully? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/73 "2010-10-08T02:33:28Z")
I quite liked Ender’s Game, and still like it. I also enjoyed, with decreasing interest, the sequels. Early Orson Scott Card books, are generally well worth reading. A Planet Called Treason, Songmaster, etc. are very enjoyable. Card has turned into a far more consistently didactic author than Heinlein ever was in his weakest moments, and he has forgotten the primary rule of writers: entertain your readers. For some years, it’s been a balancing act for me as to whether the enjoyment of his stories makes it worth the chance of being inculcated with his immoral morals. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/74 "2010-10-08T02:43:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Can someone please spoiler post about this? I’m probably going to go back to the series, but only once in a great while. What book is it in? Do the buggers return and act peacefully? He refounds them at the end of Speaker for the Dead, on Lusitania. They are the deus ex machina of Xenocide, and in Children of the Mind they are mostly concerned about how not to be destroyed again. ---
**Author:** ![Mekhazzio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b38774/32.png) [@Mekhazzio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mekhazzio)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/75 "2010-10-09T01:41:42Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That part drove me up the fucking wall. He’s 6, how could he manage to overpower and murder two teenagers twice his size? Oh, he hit them really hard you say? :rolleyes: This isn’t such a stretch. The older kids were just going to beat him up. Punch somebody a few times, maybe kick them a bit, job’s done, no real harm is intended or inflicted. Your standard schoolyard scuffle (which the first one was) is kept low-key on purpose by the participants. However, Ender had adopted the solution of deterrence through escalation. When you’re willing and intending to inflict serious damage as quickly as possible, against someone who isn’t, you automatically have the advantage. They punch you in the shoulder, you punch them in the throat. It’s the first thing taught in self-defense classes: fighting dirtier than the other guy will win. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Why](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@Doctor\_Why](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Why)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263/76 "2010-10-09T04:01:12Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I quite liked Ender’s Game, and still like it. I also enjoyed, with decreasing interest, the sequels. > > Early Orson Scott Card books, are generally well worth reading. A Planet Called Treason, Songmaster, etc. are very enjoyable. Card has turned into a far more consistently didactic author than Heinlein ever was in his weakest moments, and he has forgotten the primary rule of writers: entertain your readers. > > For some years, it’s been a balancing act for me as to whether the enjoyment of his stories makes it worth the chance of being inculcated with his immoral morals. This pretty well sums up my position. I will add that Card’s early works, while enjoyable, are pretty freaking weird. _Wyrms_ comes to mind, as the only things I remember are that they keep peoples’ heads alive after the people die, and that the main character is trying to resist screwing a super-sexy dragon. Or somesuch. Also, twelve-year-old me noticed a certain omission in _Ender’s Game_ and I thought the book about battle school from Bean’s perspective was the perfect opportunity to fix it. Alas, it wasn’t even mentioned. The glaring omission? (I know this is minor, but it still gripes me) When Ender first gets his gun, he notices that it has the tagging laser and a flashlight or something. He also notices a bunch of buttons on (I think) the underside of the grip. Later in the book, Ender and Bean (the two smartest [DEL]kids[/DEL] supergeniuses in the school) are wracking their brains to come up with new ideas and tactics that no-one else are using and they bitch a lot about poor lighting in the arena. Hey, ultra super genius! Remember that flashlight on your gun? How about the dozen other buttons you never experimented with? Sometimes it’s the little things that bother me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enders-game-i-just-finished-it-for-the-first-time-spoilers/556263.md?page=3)