Absolutely unrealistic. As we saw in “White Men Can’t Jump”, Wesley Snipes lacks the athletic talent to pull off that baserunning trick. He probably can’t even outrun Tom Berenger.
Yup. Anybody that actually points at the fence like that is going to get chin music, especially from a pitcher known to work inside anyway. Hell, I threw at a guy in slow pitch softball for doing that shit. No arc on the pitch, either…I wound up and let rip, underhanded, of course, but I put as much mustard on it as I could. And nobody else pointed at the fence when I was pitching that year.
You’re joking, right?
Pointing at the fences is an offense in baseball because it’s telling the pitcher he’s hittable, and that the batter doesn’t respect him. Slow pitch softball pitchers are supposed to get hit on. No one dogs a slow pitch pitcher for getting rocked - what else is he supposed to do?
No joke. You don’t frakkin point at the fence when I’m pitching. Of course, this was in a military intramural league, and play tended to get a little more physical than is the norm in civilian leagues. Infielders got taken out with hard slides routinely if they weren’t quick enough in getting out of the way.
OK, thanks for the answers.
I just thought that since Hayes wasn’t forced to third on the bunt, make him stay on second by holding onto the ball recovered near third. Let the bunter have his single.
But then, I don’t watch near enough baseball to know why I am so very wrong on this. 
The point is that Hays was running as soon as the pitcher went into his wind-up… i.e. before the bunt was even laid down. Even if the 3rd baseman had held the ball after recovering the bunt, Hays would have already been on, or very close to, 3rd. As I mentioned in my previous post, this is a very, very low percentage out.
Also, in the movie when Berenger’s character bunts, there are two outs. All the Yankees have to do is throwout a 40 year old catcher with bad knees at 1st base and the game goes to extra innings. And, even if they don’t get the out at 1st, it is highly unlikely that Hays goes for home on that play.
Thus, the exciting conclusion.
Was Hays that fast? (2nd to 3rd before the bunt is fielded.) That sounds too damn fast, but I sincerly don’t know.
I could buy that the third baseman didn’t even see Hays had left second until after he made his throw to first… but… isn’t the purpose of bunts to advance runners? If Berenger bunts, he’s doing it for Hays, not himself.
- scratches head *
2nd to 3rd before a bunt is fielded if one is running on the pitch is not exceptionally fast.
I’ll have to disagree slightly with Ol’ Gaffer. To make it home in the real baseball, the runner would have to make a turn at third base, not stop. If the shortstop isn’t covering, I can understand this. This way the runner has momentum and a head start to home when the throw goes. As I said, a smart third baseman wouldn’t throw the ball (an assumption I’ve made is that he was playing deep, else a slow player would not try a bunt).
Sure. You can get a pretty big lead off of second - much bigger than a lead off of first. The middle infielders will be playing deep to prevent a grounder getting past them, not holding a runner on (even a runner as fast as Hayes). If Hayes is running once (or even slightly before) the pitcher commits to home, he could be pretty close to third. The 3B is simply not going to be able to field the ball, change direction, and apply a tag. Hayes knows he’s going to throw to first, so he’ll have the momentum around third to make a play at home.
Sorry, I didn’t mean that Hays gets to 3rd before the bunt was fielded… but it was probably pretty close.
Defenses generally don’t hold a runner on second like they do at first. This means that the runner can get a pretty big lead.
If he’s running as soon as the pitcher goes into his wind-up, then he is probably pretty close to 3rd by the time the ball is fielded.
Because the 3rd baseman goes in to field the bunt, that means that the shortstop would have had to of covered 3rd for there even to be a possible play on Hays… which means that for the shortstop to even be on 3rd to catch the (hypothetical) throw, he (the shortstop) would have to run for 3rd as soon as he saw Hays running…which he wouldn’t of because there is already a 3rd baseman there…and because doing so would leave a giant hole on the left side of the infield through which a slow grounder could roll and Hays would score…whew.
So, you are exactly right - most times, the purpose of the bunt is to move a runner over. The deviation from reality is that 1) Hays is already on 2nd and in scoring position - a single brings him in; 2) there are two outs - you don’t lay down a sacrifice bunt with two outs because the out at first will end the inning; and 3) it is much more difficult to steal 3rd than it is to steal 2nd - if Berenger misses the bunt the chances of Hays being thrown out at 3rd are high; and 4) getting thrown out trying to steal 3rd in the bottom of the 9th in a one game playoff with two outs when you have a decent hitter at the plate will get you crucified by the fans/press and, if you had the green light, will get your manager fired.
In summary, in reality once Hays had stolen 2nd, Berenger would have a normal at bat and Hays would wait for a hit to try and get home. Having things play out like they did in the movie, while exciting, would get you fired.
I’m not sure what we’re disagreeing on but whatever it is, I’m right and you’re completely wrong… 
Heh. Thanks again for the explanations, and your patience.
I am a runt with little legs. Standing on a regulation ball field, the distance between each base (and from the pitchers mound to home plate, as well) seems like light years to me.
Ha! You and me both brother. For me to steal a base, I’d have to have a wild pitch on a field with no backstop. And then… maybe…
As I said, it’s a slight disagreement. I think that a 3rd baseman knows Hayes will try for home the second he throws the ball, so unless the out is a sure thing, he’s better holding onto the ball.
Think about it this way…
The situation is that the fastest guy on your team is on 2nd base and your 40 year old catcher is at bat. A big league catcher probably hits around .250 or so. There are two outs in the bottom of the 9th. The score is tied (important because if you don’t score you just go to extra innings).
In the movie scenario the following things have to happen in order for the Indians to win:
- Berenger has to disguise the fact that he’s going to bunt by calling his shot.
- Hays has to disguise the fact that he’s going for 3rd by not going on the 1st pitch.
- Berenger has to successfully lay down a bunt.
- Hays has to see the throw go to 1st, make the turn at 3rd, and go for home.
- Berenger has to beat the throw to 1st.
- Hays has to beat the throw home.
Alternatively,
- Hays waits on 2nd for Berenger to get a hit. With his speed, he will likely score on any base hit to the outfield.
One of these is a very, very low percentage play while the other is not.
Ah, I see. I would say that, considering the situation in the movie, Hays would have stopped at 3rd. But since I didn’t write the movie, I guess we’ll never know.
OK, here is a youtube vidoe of a song by Danny Kaye about the Dodgers.
Did this play really happen? Can someone put it a little more straight forward English.
Which play? There are several in the clip. But if the runner is running the base paths and is hit by the ball thrown by a fielder then the ball is live and the runner can advance or score in this case.
Not always. I’ve known guys that put backspin on the ball, and/or pitch VERY high, such that the ball is coming down at about a 75 degree angle. Hard to hit that sumbitch.
Yup. I liked to mix things up, slightly different delivery, different spins, but always a high arc…unless somebody points at the fence. Did I mention not liking that? 