# Ending of Ravens / Browns Game **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 1, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114 "2015-12-01T15:30:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/21 "2015-12-02T13:38:29Z")
The NFL has finally put their official rulebook online: [http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2015-nfl-rulebook/](http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2015-nfl-rulebook/) Here’s the PAT (officlally known as a “Try”) section: > [@](#): > > ARTICLE 2. RESULTS OF A TRY > During a Try, the following shall apply: > > If a kick results in a field goal by the offense, one point is awarded. An artificial or manufactured tee shall not be permitted to assist in the execution of a Try-kick. (The conditions of 11-4-1 must be met.) > If a Try results in a touchdown by either team, two points are awarded. > If the Try results in what would ordinarily be a safety against either team, one point is awarded to the opponent. > If any play results in a touchback, the Try is unsuccessful, and there shall be no replay. The defense gets 2 points if they run back any Try for a touchdown, regardless of whether it was a 1 or 2 point attempt. Here’s the overtime section which specifically states that there’s no Try after a touchdown in OT: > [@](#): > > Both teams must have the opportunity to possess the ball once during the extra period, unless the team that receives the opening kickoff scores a touchdown on its initial possession, in which case it is the winner, or if the team kicking off to start the overtime period scores a safety on the receiving team’s initial possession, in which case the team that kicked off is the winner. If a touchdown is scored, the game is over, and the Try is not attempted. In the absence of similar wording for a touchdown ending the game in regulation, it seems the Try is required in that case. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/22 "2015-12-02T15:31:14Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > The NFL has finally put their official rulebook online > > In the absence of similar wording for a touchdown ending the game in regulation, it seems the Try is required in that case. Rule 4-8-2(c): _If a touchdown is made on the last play of a period, the Try attempt shall be made (except during a sudden-death period)._ ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/23 "2015-12-03T03:14:59Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Stunned? Nah, trust me, we’re used to this. I was pissed the Ravens didn’t lose. It’s like they don’t want a top 5 draft pick (that Ozzie will subsequently trade away for 5 second round picks that all have mysterious knee injuries). I drank good bit of gin, remembered the Ravens played Monday night, turned the game on late, fell asleep early, woke up to see Austin slide for the first down with less than a minute left, changed the channel because fuck that, checked the score 10 minutes later, and shook my head. Fuck this team. I’m trying very hard not to care about football and now they’re on a win streak? I swear if they beat the Seahawks…I’m not gonna do anything, but I’m just committed to them tanking and their winning is fucking that up. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/24 "2015-12-03T03:29:39Z")
Yeah, they can’t even tank right! But the thing is, all these games have been close. That means they’re not really a terrible team this year, just a mediocre team that had bad luck in the first half of the season. The hope for a top draft pick was probably a mirage all along. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/25 "2015-12-03T03:30:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Stunned? Nah, trust me, we’re used to this. So true. The Browns find _so many_ ways to lose. Right now, guess who has the longest losing streak in the opening coin flip? Goddamn it. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/26 "2015-12-03T03:33:56Z")
I think you can safely call them bad, even if the refs didn’t bungle two of their losses. The fact that they have a very distant hope, but hope nonethless, for a wild card spot is just sad. On the plus side, I’ve been watching a lot more soccer. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/27 "2015-12-07T17:40:36Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > No that was changed for this year. The defense can score two points by running back a blocked kick, fumble or interception for what would normally be a touchdown. Of course the two points would have made no difference in the final outcome of this game. In addition to this thread, this very scenario even happened yesterday in the Cats/Saints game (for the first time ever.) Ok, universe, I get it. I was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/28 "2015-12-08T06:48:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Stunned? Nah, trust me, we’re used to this. Nah. You’re familiar with losing, no doubt, but not like that. A team can now turn an extra point attempt into points for themselves, so the point should be attempted. Even if the game is “over,” there are points scored playoff tie-breakers, however unlikely they are to be applied. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/29 "2015-12-08T07:26:13Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Yeah, I heard the announcers say that and they were wrong. PATs are also not kicked after a TD in overtime. We just had this in the Sunday night game when the Broncos won on a TD in overtime. Final score 30-24. I’m surprised Mike Tirico thought it was necessary. You’re wrong. XPs aren’t necessary in OT because, by rule, any TD ends the game. But that is not true in regulation games. The defense can get points from an opponents PAT attempt, so its attempt is mandatory. Mike Turico was right. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/30 "2015-12-08T08:31:13Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > You’re wrong. XPs aren’t necessary in OT because, by rule, any TD ends the game. But that is not true in regulation games. The defense can get points from an opponents PAT attempt, so its attempt is mandatory. Mike Turico was right. Example: a team down 10-15 scores a TD with no time left in regulation. The game is not over because the now trailing team can return a failed PAT for 2 points. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/31 "2015-12-08T16:56:06Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > A team can now turn an extra point attempt into points for themselves, so the point should be attempted. Even if the game is “over,” there are points scored playoff tie-breakers, however unlikely they are to be applied. By that line of reasoning, running up the score is always a good thing. IMO, this is why teams take a knee on the conversion at the end of the fourth quarter if it wouldn’t change the result; trying to score in that situation smacks of running up the score. Then again, that only makes sense if it was the team that was ahead that scored the final TD. Still, even if the team behind (by 3 or more, of course) were to try to score, it might be considered the football equivalent of bunting to break up a no-hitter; it’s “bad form” more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/32 "2015-12-08T22:26:46Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > IMO, this is why teams take a knee on the conversion at the end of the fourth quarter if it wouldn’t change the result; trying to score in that situation smacks of running up the score. I don’t recall this happening prior to this year. Seems teams used to always kick the meaningless extra point with time expired (in regulation). Feel free to correct me if I’m misremembering. Is it possible that the fact that you can _give up_ points on the try is causing teams to take a knee? It seems like this would be a no-brainer if the TD put you up by 1 or 2, but if it put you up by more, it doesn’t matter either way. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/33 "2015-12-08T22:33:18Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > It seems like this would be a no-brainer if the TD put you up by 1 or 2, but if it put you up by more, it doesn’t matter either way. You’d think teams would take a knee just to avoid the potential for injury on a meaningless play. Gronkowski broke his arm on a PAT. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/34 "2015-12-08T22:37:52Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > I don’t recall this happening prior to this year. Seems teams used to always kick the meaningless extra point with time expired (in regulation). Feel free to correct me if I’m misremembering. No, you’re remembering accurately. I’m reasonably certain it’s being done now because there’s a small chance that, with a blocked kick, the “meaningless” play could become a scrum, and the possibility of injury on that play is higher than it was before this season. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/35 "2015-12-08T22:54:39Z")
Prediction: After this season the NFL will eliminate the conversion on touchdowns scored as time expires, unless the game is tied or the scoring team trails by one or two. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/36 "2015-12-09T13:19:30Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Prediction: After this season the NFL will eliminate the conversion on touchdowns scored as time expires, unless the game is tied or the scoring team trails by one or two. They’d have to keep it if the scoring team is now up by only one or two as well, to allow for the other team to get a 2 pt run back (or 1 pt. safety for that matter) on the PAT. But otherwise, yes, you could be right. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114/37 "2015-12-09T16:05:17Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > They’d have to keep it if the scoring team is now up by only one or two as well, to allow for the other team to get a 2 pt run back (or 1 pt. safety for that matter) on the PAT. But otherwise, yes, you could be right. Pointless. The leading team will call a kneeldown. The last thing people want after a thrilling game-winning touchdown is a big hassle to clear the field for a meaningless kneeldown. NCAA football blows off the PAT when the scoring team is ahead–even by one or two–for that very reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ending-of-ravens-browns-game/739114.md?page=1)