# Enforcing Leaving the State for an Abortion, Other Post-Roe Abortion Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068 "2022-05-06T13:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/21 "2022-05-06T15:19:46Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I was actually hopeful about the alcohol laws, because states do have different laws and I can imagine a state trying to regulate its citizens going to other states on that subject. No state cares enough to try to enact and enforce some interstate alcohol law, if that would even be enforceable. States (and SCOTUS) care a LOT about abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Julius\_Henry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8797f3/32.png) [@Julius\_Henry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Julius_Henry)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/22 "2022-05-06T15:20:01Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I would need to see the proposed laws that you say states have introduced regarding leaving the state to have a comment on that part. [This link](https://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills221/hlrbillspdf/4488S.04C.pdf) will send you to a PDF of what appears to be the Missouri Bill at issue in its current form. It’s been passed by the Missouri House and is awaiting action in the Senate. It’s 64 pages long which is one of many reasons I won’t read and summarize it for anyone, but I’m sure a few people here can do a fine job. Section 188.090 which starts on page 9 refers to abortion-inducing drugs. Section 188.220 gives Missouri taxpayers standing to sue to enforce certain provisions, but I’m not sure specifically which ones. Scrolling through all 64 pages, I see nothing preventing anyone from leaving the state to get an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/23 "2022-05-06T15:42:03Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’ve read that in at least one state’s law the crime is conspiring (in the state) to leave the state to obtain an abortion. Why not just have a lie ready. “I left state X to visit my friend in state Y. While visiting, I discovered I was pregnant, so I had the pregnancy terminated.” Agree with this. [rhetorical] But why should an American woman in this day and age have to lie about anything - especially having a health procedure? I guess that’s where this country is going - or at least parts of it. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/24 "2022-05-06T19:52:59Z")
There’s a fact about human reproduction that throws a wrench in all the anti-abortion enforcement fantasies. The human species is not a very efficient reproducer. As many as half of all fertilized human egg cells never achieve attachment to the uterine wall. They can say that every fertilization is a child all they want, but millions of those “children” end up on a tampon without any effort from the woman or a doctor. Many more that do attach bail out after a brief stay, for no apparent (no pun intended) reason. Will women who spontaneously abort (miscarry) be pursued by abortion enforcers? Some would say that God aborts more babies than all the doctors. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/25 "2022-05-06T20:03:11Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > I don’t see how they can enforce that: short of parking cops at the border and then being on the lookout for women of childbearing age. Don’t kid yourself. It’s not about prevention; nobody really wants to save babies. It’s about punishment and reprisal after the fact, pure domination and oppression. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/26 "2022-05-06T20:46:36Z")
**Lord\_Feldon** mind if I share this on my social media? ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/27 "2022-05-06T20:54:52Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Will women who spontaneously abort (miscarry) be pursued by abortion enforcers? That’s already happening. > **[US women are being jailed for having miscarriages](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59214544)** > > More and more American women are facing prison for allegedly harming their unborn baby by using drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/28 "2022-05-06T21:02:53Z")
I have read that Connecticut is considering a law that would prevent the state from extraditing a CN resident accused of violating the abortion law of another state. In addition, if a resident gets sued for aiding an abortion, it gives them grounds for a counter-suit. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/29 "2022-05-06T21:04:15Z")
I am not so sure that the women are _exactly_ being charged with using abortion pills that were received through the mail. I get some of my prescriptions through a mail-order pharmacy in another state - and they will mail me the pills used for medical abortions. ( I checked) Most of the stories I have read either do not give any details about how the women obtained the pills or it turns out that the pills were bought without a prescription from a pharmacy outside the US and what they get charged with is some combination of buying the pills from out of the country/not having a prescription/giving the pills to someone else and sometimes whatever brought the incident to official attention. Understand, I’m not saying it’s impossible for a state to at least try to prosecute a woman for using abortion pills obtained with a doctor’s prescription through the mail from a US pharmacy - I’m just saying that I haven’t seen any articles that include that detail. And I kind of think the articles would include it , if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/30 "2022-05-06T23:07:44Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > I think it’s pretty clear that State A can prosecute for conspiracy to commit a crime in State B, where the thing is a crime in both states. \*\*# Federal criminal charges under 18 USC 2423 (illegal sex and travel) - typically juveniles, or the Mann Act [that white slavery one from 1910] a federal law that criminalizes the transportation of “any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose.” \*\* That second one is probably what they will try to use, IMHO. I think it will end up the woman being grassed upon by friends/family who know she was pregnant, went somewhere and is now not pregnant. At least I figure that is what I would use if I were the asshat in charge of the mess. So it isn’t that they will have border control so much as East German/Soviet style informants everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/31 "2022-05-07T00:58:57Z")
Feel free! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/32 "2022-05-07T03:59:55Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Maybe women will be required to take pregnancy tests upon leaving and re-entering the state. Or maybe they’ll just have pregnancy sniffing dogs. The issue there is that not all pregnancies that end short of birth do so as a result of an abortion. Many pregnant women experience a miscarriage. So if a woman who is pregnant in Texas travels to Massachusetts and comes back a week later no longer pregnant, the police in Texas may investigate whether she had an abortion in Massachusetts. But if the woman says _“No, I had a naturally occurring miscarriage while I was in Massachusetts”_ how are the police going to be able to show otherwise? One obvious way would be to receive testimony from the medical staff in Massachusetts. But I don’t see why these people would voluntarily provide information to the Texas police and I don’t see how Texas could compel them to. And medical confidentiality laws would probably require the medical staff to remain silent even if they wished to testify for some strange reason. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/33 "2022-05-07T04:39:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But if the woman says _“No, I had a naturally occurring miscarriage while I was in Massachusetts”_ how are the police going to be able to show otherwise? Lots of people aren’t going to cover their tracks well enough to avoid it being obvious what they did. They’ll Google the clinic, they’ll use their phone to navigate to it, they’ll write a check, they’ll text a friend, etc. All of that information will be held by companies that have a business presence in Texas and are subject to the Texas court’s jurisdiction. Some people will know how this works and how to do things in a more secretive manner, there will be guides spread on how to get an abortion without leaving any footprints, etc., but some women will be easily caught anyways. This won’t happen to most women, but _once they have a reason to look_ it will be easily found in many cases. (And this is just the things that are a part of our daily lives already. If this kind of law ever arises, I wouldn’t put it past the Operation Rescue types to start filming outside of the clinics in legal states and sending research to friendly prosecutors. We’ll go from Sedition Hunters to Abortion Hunters.) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/34 "2022-05-07T05:49:44Z")
There are already groups working on educating women about what to say and what not to say. For instance, > [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > if a woman goes to the hospital because she is bleeding severely, and because she wants the most accurate medical help possible she admits that she took mifepristone that she ordered online, An abortion due to the two abortion pills is indistinguishable from a naturally occurring miscarriage. [Experts say](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/roe-v-wade-overturn-abortion-rights/629366/) there is no medical advantage to telling an ER doc that she’s taken abortion pills. > [@Falchion](#): > > But on this part, the regulation of drug prescribing and dispensing through the mail or internet is a standard part of both state and federal law. This is most commonly seen in the context of controlled substances – the Ryan Haight Act of 2008 was all about regulating internet prescribing and pharmacies Sure, though both Mifepristone and misoprostol are prescribed for other, non-abortion issues. (Misoprostol is used to prevent ulcers, and Mifepristone is used to treat hyperglycemia.) But there’s a work-around re: Ryan-Haight:, too, according to [WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/05/04/abortion-pills-online-telemedicine/): > Many Republican legislatures have tried banning the pills from being shipped or prescribed. **But some women have been able to circumvent the restrictions by getting their pills online from overseas pharmacies that can’t be reached by U.S. laws.** The five-day regimen of tablets usually comes in an unassuming envelope, making it hard to police. With the Supreme Court possibly poised to overturn _Roe v. Wade_ , people seeking abortions in the United States will probably flock to these sources, experts say. > > “ **This is just not going to be stoppable** ,” said Gerald Rosenberg, a law professor emeritus at the University of Chicago law school. Bolding mine. Or, from that same _Atlantic_ article above, homemade De-Em devices use ordinary materials. I can’t see legislatures outlawing mason jars and aquarium tubing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/35 "2022-05-07T06:02:03Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Lots of people aren’t going to cover their tracks well enough to avoid it being obvious what they did. They’ll Google the clinic, they’ll use their phone to navigate to it, they’ll write a check, they’ll text a friend, etc. All of that information will be held by companies that have a business presence in Texas and are subject to the Texas court’s jurisdiction. I feel the people who would be targeted for investigations of this type are people who are already suspicious of the police. If getting an abortion becomes illegal, they’ll understand the need to cover their tracks. They’ll be expecting the police to shop up at their door when they return from Massachusetts and they’ll have their story straight. Granted, there are also people who do not have an existing wariness about the police. And these people probably will leave a paper trail without realizing it makes them vulnerable. But when these people return from Massachusetts, the police won’t investigate them. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/36 "2022-05-07T11:51:45Z")
I get my antihypertensives via the US mail. I am not a lawyer and do not know the legality of what I’m doing. Prior to the relaxation of state cannabis laws, for decades I’d send/receive an ounce of marijuana without ever getting caught. I’ve also purchased cannabis seeds from Canada and the UK, again, without problems. Just some observations. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/37 "2022-05-07T12:40:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > for decades I’d send/receive an ounce of marijuana without ever getting caught I’ve had a relative in California send an ounce to Missouri on several occasions. On at least one the funk coming out of the box was so strong you could have smelled it down the street. Even the USPS carrier could smell it, as she’d put it in a plastic bag (as if that would help). Clearly she knew what it was and gave precisely zero fucks. Also clear is the fact that several people outside of California, including at a few stops in Missouri, had chances to smell it and go ¯\_(ツ)\_/¯ ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/38 "2022-05-07T13:20:37Z")
> [@HeyHomie](#): > > Even the USPS carrier could smell it, My technique involved vacuum sealing the greenery, then packing it in fresh ground coffee. Ahhh, the “good” old days. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/39 "2022-05-07T14:14:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I’ve read that in at least one state’s law the crime is conspiring (in the state) to leave the state to obtain an abortion. Why not just have a lie ready. “I left state X to visit my friend in state Y. While visiting, I discovered I was pregnant, so I had the pregnancy terminated.” But she probably purchased and used a pregnancy test kit in state X, before she left for state Y. And the authorities in state X could likely find proof of her buying the kit, so the “while visiting, I discovered…” excuse won’t fly, if the authorities want to pursue the case (like if she’s black, or poor, or a known democrat). ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/40 "2022-05-07T14:20:14Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > I have read that Connecticut is considering a law that would prevent the state from extraditing a CN resident accused of violating the abortion law of another state. In addition, if a resident gets sued for aiding an abortion, it gives them grounds for a counter-suit. Yes, but no doubt the red states can pass a federal _Fugitive Woman Act_, requiring authorities in all state to assist ‘woman-catchers’ from other states in their pursuit of escaping pregnant women. And this Supreme Court would find it perfectly Constitutional. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068.md?page=3)