# Enforcing Leaving the State for an Abortion, Other Post-Roe Abortion Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Tags:** roe\_vs\_wade\_abortion\ **Created:** [May 6, 2022, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068 "2022-05-06T13:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/41 "2022-05-07T14:48:32Z")
You know, I was of a suitable age to worry about such stuff in the bad old days pre Roe. And there were entire networks of women (and decent men, lets not forget them) helping each other out in various ways. For example, I spent a couple of years doing ‘escort duty’ to get women past the gantlets of rabid anti-abortion protesters outside a clinic a few towns over. Do they really imagine the equivalent networks won’t rapidly spring into being to counter these laws? That nonsense about intercepting drugs from pharmacies by looking at the return addresses? All it takes is someone willing to repackage them into a knickknack sized letter from a private person. Heck, no need to even put your own return address onto the letter, pick one at random from the local phone book, and drop it into any mail box. Heck, I’m ancient and increasingly feeble, and _I_’d be happy to contribute that much effort. Are they going to open every letter and package mailed from each state without these laws? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/42 "2022-05-07T14:56:10Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > Yes, but no doubt the red states can pass a federal _Fugitive Woman Act_ , requiring authorities in all state to assist ‘woman-catchers’ from other states in their pursuit of escaping pregnant women. > [@Article IV §2](#): > > No Person held to Service or Labor in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or Labor, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labor may be due It is right there in the Constitution. Granted, that applies to slavery, which was mostly outlawed by 13A, but 13A does not specifically redact the language in Article IV. A pregnant woman, by the law of the slave state, is being _de facto_ “held to service”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/43 "2022-05-07T15:47:32Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > But she probably purchased and used a pregnancy test kit in state X, before she left for state Y. “Oh, yes. I bought that test, it was negative.” ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/44 "2022-05-07T16:45:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@Crane](#): > > > > Maybe women will be required to take pregnancy tests upon leaving and re-entering the state. Or maybe they’ll just have pregnancy sniffing dogs. > > The issue there is that not all pregnancies that end short of birth do so as a result of an abortion. Many pregnant women experience a miscarriage. > > So if a woman who is pregnant in Texas travels to Massachusetts and comes back a week later no longer pregnant, the police in Texas may investigate whether she had an abortion in Massachusetts. But if the woman says _“No, I had a naturally occurring miscarriage while I was in Massachusetts”_ how are the police going to be able to show otherwise? > > One obvious way would be to receive testimony from the medical staff in Massachusetts. But I don’t see why these people would voluntarily provide information to the Texas police and I don’t see how Texas could compel them to. And medical confidentiality laws would probably require the medical staff to remain silent even if they wished to testify for some strange reason. Part of the issue is if a woman has a medical procedure years down the line, the physician may find physical evidence of an abortion. This is going to cause a lot of issues with women avoiding medical care after an abortion for fear of a doctor finding out and reporting it. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/45 "2022-05-07T17:34:41Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Part of the issue is if a woman has a medical procedure years down the line, the physician may find physical evidence of an abortion. Is it conclusive, though? Can this evidence be indicative of some other thing that was not an abortion? The whole “beyond a reasonable doubt” comes into play, and requiring doctors to report confidential information is nearly impossible and in serious conflict with medical ethics. Some doctors may be inclined to snitch, others will not. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/46 "2022-05-07T19:43:51Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The whole “beyond a reasonable doubt” comes into play, Cold comfort when you’re being dragged into a very public court case you may or may not be able to afford. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/47 "2022-05-07T20:07:39Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Do they really imagine the equivalent networks won’t rapidly spring into being to counter these laws? That nonsense about intercepting drugs from pharmacies by looking at the return addresses? All it takes is someone willing to repackage them into a knickknack sized letter from a private person. Heck, no need to even put your own return address onto the letter, pick one at random from the local phone book, and drop it into any mail box. But lots of women will not have access to those networks, because they aren’t the savvy type. Or they are juat terrified of the consequences. I think a lot of progresssives are clinging to the idea that this thing can be grassrooted into not a big deal, but its not true. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/48 "2022-05-07T20:47:34Z")
I don’t think it can be made a not-big-deal but speaking as a decades long survivor of cannabis prohibition I can be quite sure that it’s going to be impossible to enforce these laws in any but the most egregiously obvious scenarios. Which doesn’t help the overarcing message women are getting that we aren’t actually considered to be fully human. I mean, this country STILL hasn’t passed the Equal Rights Amendment that was written back when I was in high school and still is (IIRC) three states shy of ratification. Which is something I was wondering about, if women became a protected class, would it then be unconstitutional to write laws that affect only women? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/49 "2022-05-07T20:58:49Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > I don’t think it can be made a not-big-deal but speaking as a decades long survivor of cannabis prohibition I can be quite sure that it’s going to be impossible to enforce these laws in any but the most egregiously obvious scenarios. I was envisioning a vast underground network replacing legal terminations with safe illegal ones, right under their noses. But then, when you said “cannabis”, it occured to me that this would be their replacement for the “War on Drugs”. Except, this time, it will be a shitload harder for them to gain as much traction. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/50 "2022-05-07T21:40:28Z")
There is still a lot of ignorance about menstruation. Lots of women spontaneously have long or even skipped cycles without ever having a fertilized egg. This came up again in the Trump era when an official supervising a center full of immigrant women was found to have a spreadsheet of the women’s menstrual cycles. Use of contraceptive drugs tends to make cycles more regular, but some cause abbreviated or missed periods. Ignorant officials might jump to mistaken conclusions about pregnancy. I might be over-reaching the limits of my knowledge, here. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/51 "2022-05-07T22:00:10Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > Use of contraceptive drugs tends to make cycles more regular… I might be over-reaching the limits of my knowledge, here. Your information is somewhat flawed. I had a girlfriend who took the pill not only for contraception but also because, by skipping the 5 placebos, she never had to worry about periods. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/52 "2022-05-07T22:12:27Z")
There are BC pills that specifically stop periods aside from like four times a year (I guess to check if things are working correctly?) and IUDs that have included hormones that make periods very light and stop them completely for some women. About half the women who use the Depo-Provero shot have their periods stop as well. Basically, any BC method that uses hormones will tend to disrupt or stop the entire menstrual cycle because women have periods due to rising and falling hormone levels/ratios and hormonal BC can really play havoc with that cycle. Missed periods are nothing close to a good indicator of pregnancy, just as having your period doesn’t necessarily mean you aren’t pregnant. As with most social issues things are nowhere near as simple, clear cut or obvious as stupid fucking moron lawmakers try to make them out to be. Shit, some of those fuckers still believe that periods are under women’s conscious control and that it’s not possible for a woman to get pregnant via rape because they really seem to think we can control fertility with the power of our minds. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/53 "2022-05-07T23:50:33Z")
> [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](#): > > proof of her buying the kit, Blond wig for me [actually any wig, I currently don’t have hair again], color a couple shades darker than my normal ‘creamy ivory’, heck - wearing makeup at all =) Different style of clothing which is immediately discarded, pay in cash at least 50 miles away, take the test at a roadside piss stop and discard the entire kit, borrow someone elses car [parking lot cameras] leaving ones phone at home, meeting the person loaning you the car in a random parking area [wide grassy spot, not a park] and slopping mud on the license plates and lower panels of the car like you drove through a muddy dirt lot. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > All it takes is someone willing to repackage them into a knickknack sized letter from a private person Happy to do so, including gloving up to not leave fingerprints and wiping the packaging of the pills clean. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/54 "2022-05-09T04:01:56Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > … they really seem to think we can control fertility with the power of our minds. Well, of course you can – you can even control the gender of your child, the way Jessica Atreides went against the Bene Gesserit program to give birth to the Kwisatz Haderach. It is all right there in the history books. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/55 "2022-05-09T04:03:38Z")
They never stop to think how it could be, if we’re so powerful, that they’re still drawing breath. You’d think we’d force choke them all, wouldn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/56 "2022-05-09T04:08:21Z")
I had to buy that one album. With a titte full of insight, _The Power of Pussy_, how coud I not? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/57 "2022-05-09T19:59:37Z")
I just wanted to mention that IUDs will be outlawed as inducing abortions because they prevent ~~human beings~~ fertilized eggs from implanting. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2022, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/58 "2022-06-21T23:29:33Z")
Why is everyone assuming red states won’t impose restrictions on OTC pregnancy tests or ban them outright? Pharmacies could be required to log the ID every customer buying one. Or pregnancy tests could be restricted to doctors offices and clinics who’d be required to share the results with public health authorities. This happened in Romania and isn’t Poland keeping a state pregnancy registry now? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2022, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/59 "2022-06-22T00:47:16Z")
I don’t think the lack of discussion is a matter of assuming they won’t as much as it is that they haven’t tried it yet. But I don’t think they will. For a variety of reasons starting with the fact that it will be unenforceable, there will be far too many pregnancy tests sold to follow up on all of them if they go with a log at pharmacies , that not all home pregnancy tests come up positive ( I can’t find numbers- there probably aren’t any, but my guess is there will probably be ten negative tests for each positive one\*), that it would affect people close to the legislators who sign the bill. You can try to put restrictions on the pills used for medical abortion and you can try to put restrictions on Plan B - but here’s the thing. Those medications are only used by people who don’t want to be pregnant. Home pregnancy tests are also used by people who want to be pregnant and don’t want to wait a week or two or however long it takes to get an appointment to see a doctor - there are going to be problems if either 1) they can’t buy the test or 2) you send the police to their house to see if they are still pregnant a few weeks after they buy a test at CVS (assuming that any state has the funds to do that) \* Let’s say my period is 2 days late - I take a test and it’s negative. I might take two or three more tests that come up negative before I finally start to menstruate two weeks later. Or maybe I take ten tests over the course of three year but only one is positive. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068/60 "2022-06-25T02:18:03Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > For a variety of reasons starting with the fact that it will be unenforceable, there will be far too many pregnancy tests sold to follow up on all of them if they go with a log at pharmacies , that not all home pregnancy tests come up positive That’s why you cross-reference the database with people who show credit card purchases in an abortion-friendly state, and just follow up on those. I mean, many, maybe most, laws are relatively easy to break without getting caught if you are reasonably intelligent and take precautions/plan ahead. But 1) the very existence of the law makes some people unwilling to break it, due to principle or fear of getting caught and 2) not everyone makes wise decisions, especially at an emotionally fraught time. It would certainly make it more difficult to ask others to help you, because you’d be exposing them to criminal liability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enforcing-leaving-the-state-for-an-abortion-other-post-roe-abortion-questions/964068.md?page=4)