# Engine without oil? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 17, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555 "2014-02-17T19:21:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/41 "2014-02-18T19:25:43Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I’m not disputing that, and engine oil failure was the reason why the marines let Gus Griffon’s capsule sink, though it does seem manageable, and there does seems ways that can prolong it’s life that have not been implemented. What is Gus Griffon’s capsule? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/42 "2014-02-18T19:35:58Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > What is Gus Griffon’s capsule? [Google is your friend.](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Gus+Griffon%27s+capsule+recovered) ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/43 "2014-02-18T19:36:09Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > What is Gus Griffon’s capsule? Liberty Bell 7, part of the Mercury space flight program program. And yes a spelling error that should read Grissom, but you know that anyway and just wanted to be a royal PITA. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/44 "2014-02-18T19:40:27Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > And yes a spelling error that should read Grissom, but you know that anyway and just wanted to be a royal PITA. I don’t know, could have been a [movie reference.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0341208/) ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/45 "2014-02-18T19:52:54Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > I remember the discussions in the 60s. Was a turbine engine an Internal combustion engine or external. One argument that combustion (turning chemical energy into heat energy) occurred outside the engine (the part that converts heat energy to mechanical energy). Therefore an external engine. On a true IC engine the combustion happens in the same place that heat energy is converted to mechanical energy. The other argument was because the combustion happened between the compressor and the turbine, and the turbine was linked to the compressor it was all one engine therefore an IC engine. Perhaps a better differentiation would be reciprocating vs. rotating. Only the Wankel blurs this line. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/46 "2014-02-18T20:35:32Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Liberty Bell 7, part of the Mercury space flight program program. > > And yes a spelling error that should read Grissom, but you know that anyway and just wanted to be a royal PITA. No, I did not know what you were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/47 "2014-02-18T20:52:32Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Do electric cars still need oil? Nope. I have an electric vehicle (Tesla Model S). The motor makes 400+ hp and there is no oil. It has sealed bearings that don’t require service. According to some info I found the motor is industrial quality and supposed to be good for a minimum of 1/2 million miles. It does used glycol based coolant to cool the battery and charger. Besides that I believe the only fluids are brake and windshield washer fluids. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/48 "2014-02-18T21:45:21Z")
> [@zwede](#): > > Nope. I have an electric vehicle (Tesla Model S). The motor makes 400+ hp and there is no oil. It has sealed bearings that don’t require service. According to some info I found the motor is industrial quality and supposed to be good for a minimum of 1/2 million miles. > > It does used glycol based coolant to cool the battery and charger. Besides that I believe the only fluids are brake and windshield washer fluids. So, it looks like ICEs will always need oil. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/49 "2014-02-18T21:46:26Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Perhaps a better differentiation would be reciprocating vs. rotating. Only the Wankel blurs this line. Wankel engines are no longer manufactured. [http://jalopnik.com/5921410/the-last-mazda-wankel-engine-has-been-built](http://jalopnik.com/5921410/the-last-mazda-wankel-engine-has-been-built) ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/50 "2014-02-18T22:47:37Z")
The [Honda S600](http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/classic/112_0708_1965_honda_s600/) (and S800) used roller-bearings for the crankshaft that allowed it to have a stratospheric (for 1965 production car standards) 9500rpm redline. Now, those bearings were still lubricated with oil, but most cars now used sealed wheel bearings that last the life of the vehicle with only the grease they’re packed with from the factory. I don’t see why someone couldn’t develop an engine with sealed needle bearings for the crankshaft and wristpins. Heat would be an issue but that’s not a showstopper. What IS a showstopper is the piston rings, which need oil not just for lubrication but also to make a proper seal for combustion. You could always run oil in the gas like a two-stroke, but that’s not getting past the EPA. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/51 "2014-02-18T23:11:11Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > No, I did not know what you were talking about. Then my apologies. ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/52 "2014-02-19T00:50:09Z")
> [@zwede](#): > > Nope. I have an electric vehicle (Tesla Model S). The motor makes 400+ hp and there is no oil. It has sealed bearings that don’t require service. According to some info I found the motor is industrial quality and supposed to be good for a minimum of 1/2 million miles. > > It does used glycol based coolant to cool the battery and charger. Besides that I believe the only fluids are brake and windshield washer fluids. Hmm doesn’t that show that oil for lubrication isn’t that important? I guess electric motors produce less waste heat than ICE. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/53 "2014-02-19T01:01:07Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > Hmm doesn’t that show that oil for lubrication isn’t that important? I guess electric motors produce less waste heat than ICE. The number of moving parts and rubbing interfaces in a 4-cylinder traditional ICE car engine are about 20x the number in a Tesla-scale electric motor. And yes, the waste heat difference is also about 10 to 1. Oil for lubrication is essential for an ICE built out of traditional materials and intended for traditional lifespans. The OP seems to be asking about the practicality of making an ICE-powered car with no engine oil lubrication. Whoever introduced discussions of pure electric cars, turbines, etc. into the discussion is not being, IMO, helpful And yes, **AaronX** , I understand you’re not the one who did that. No accusation intended. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/54 "2014-02-19T03:05:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The number of moving parts and rubbing interfaces in a 4-cylinder traditional ICE car engine are about 20x the number in a Tesla-scale electric motor. And yes, the waste heat difference is also about 10 to 1. > > Oil for lubrication is essential for an ICE built out of traditional materials and intended for traditional lifespans. > > The OP seems to be asking about the practicality of making an ICE-powered car with no engine oil lubrication. Whoever introduced discussions of pure electric cars, turbines, etc. into the discussion is not being, IMO, helpful And yes, **AaronX** , I understand you’re not the one who did that. No accusation intended. Yes, and I am surprised we are still using such relatively primitive technology here in ‘The Future’. ---
**Author:** ![zwede](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ac91a4/32.png) [@zwede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zwede)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/55 "2014-02-19T03:09:14Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Whoever introduced discussions of pure electric cars, turbines, etc. into the discussion is not being, IMO, helpful I disagree. The point was that using oil is not inherent to an automotive power plant, meaning the power levels themselves are not what makes oil necessary. Rather it’s something particular to the ICE. My guess would be that it’s just too difficult getting piston rings to seal and not wear without oil. ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/56 "2014-02-19T03:15:24Z")
> [@zwede](#): > > I disagree. The point was that using oil is not inherent to an automotive power plant, meaning the power levels themselves are not what makes oil necessary. Rather it’s something particular to the ICE. > > My guess would be that it’s just too difficult getting piston rings to seal and not wear without oil. The heat seems to be the major issue. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/57 "2014-02-19T03:17:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > The OP seems to be asking about the practicality of making an ICE-powered car with no engine oil lubrication. I don’t see any such constraints in the OP. > [@](#): > > Whoever introduced discussions of pure electric cars, turbines, etc. into the discussion is not being, IMO, helpful That would be me. And I thought it was helpful, as your perceived constraints would limit responses to, “No. There’s no such thing.” ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/58 "2014-02-19T03:18:40Z")
> [@Melchior](#): > > Yes, and I am surprised we are still using such relatively primitive technology here in ‘The Future’. We’re still using knives, we still bake bread, we still brew beer, we still raise livestock, we still farm crops, we still work metal… Some stuff is just so good that even though we’ve been doing it for thousands of years there’s no replacement, at least for the foreseeable future. We learn more about it and tweak the way we implement it along the way, but some things are just so good they’re never going away ---
**Author:** ![Melchior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Melchior](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melchior)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/59 "2014-02-19T03:30:39Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > We’re still using knives, we still bake bread, we still brew beer, we still raise livestock, we still farm crops, we still work metal… > > Some stuff is just so good that even though we’ve been doing it for thousands of years there’s no replacement, at least for the foreseeable future. We learn more about it and tweak the way we implement it along the way, but some things are just so good they’re never going away Well, where are the atom-powered cars we were promised? LOL ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555/60 "2014-02-19T03:35:36Z")
If the jury will allow this question… My point is, it’s possible to make cars that don’t require oil now. Maybe in the future we’ll have cars with lifetime oil? Then cars with no oil? We didn’t have unleaded petrol or sealed, maintenance free lead batteries in the past either. Who knows what we’ll have in the future? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engine-without-oil/681555.md?page=4)