# Engineer\_comp\_geek, are you \*aware\* how racist this moderation sounds? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [June 12, 2021, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129 "2021-06-12T16:53:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/42 "2021-06-12T21:01:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Why do you need to ask, when I helpfully included a link to the post in question and everything? I got interrupted before completing my post, but when I started typing the link wasn’t there. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/43 "2021-06-12T21:03:11Z")
And I’ll repeat myself at the risk of boring you - the issue isn’t _just_ that you closed the thread, it’s how you did so. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/44 "2021-06-12T21:03:21Z")
Well, if were talking about the mod note listed in the OP, I’d start by removing commentary about it being a hot button topic for BB and recommendations that he stop posting about it on the SDMB. You made it BB’s anger issue, rather than an issue of MPSIMS vs the Pit. You want to avoid lecturing him on whether he’s entitled to be angry or allowed to express it. Instead, saying that you recognize that the comments are problematic and you acknowledge his anger but the Pit is a more appropriate place for the discussion. Then, importantly, you then focus on the comments that he’s replying to, and call out the impact the words are having on a member of the indigenous community. Acknowledging BB anger and focusing on the impact (even if it was unintended) reinforces his right to be angry when a racially charged comment is made. In other words, the benefit of the doubt goes to the BIPOC person when they say that comments are crossing the line. Now, this is an off the cuff answer, and may be incomplete and imperfect, but I think you get the idea. FWIW, doing this right is really hard. I totally blew it at work with one of my personnel, not stepping in and shutting something down when I should have. At the moment I was tongue tied and frozen, and I know this work better than some. It’s hard, because the “rules” we may have grown up with don’t apply, but for good reason. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/45 "2021-06-12T21:07:01Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Well, if were talking about the mod note listed in the OP, I’d start by removing commentary about it being a hot button topic for BB and recommendations that he stop posting about it on the SDMB. It is a hot button issue for him, and as I said, even if he’s right, that doesn’t give him a free pass to drive threads off the rails with it. How do I say that without it being a racial issue? ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/46 "2021-06-12T21:15:34Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > It is a hot button issue for him, I’m an old white guy, but honestly killing kids is a hot button issue for me as well. Which made me scratch my head about the original thread staying in MPSIMS. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/47 "2021-06-12T21:15:54Z")
“BB, I get why you’re angry. Those posts were inappropriate and even if he’s not intending them to be insulting, they clearly are impacting you that way. While your anger is justified, the Pit is the place for heated discussions on this board. (I can’t remember who the poster was), your comments are coming off as insensitive and are crossing a line. Please listen to what BB is communicating to you about your language being dismissive of this situation. Again, a heated back and forth is better suited for the Pit.” Not perfect bc it’s off the cuff, but that’s the idea. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/48 "2021-06-12T21:21:14Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > that doesn’t give him a free pass to drive threads off the rails with it This reads, to me, like you think he’s _deliberately_ using his anger in a race-card-y way. You want to maybe think about what that says about _your_ thinking on this issue, and the kind of intent you’re assigning to **Bear** , there? Because it tracks very much with parts of the Black Buck trope I linked to in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/49 "2021-06-12T21:24:00Z")
I can’t claim to be “indigenous” in any way so I cannot claim or pretend to share **Banquet\_Bear’s** experiences at all. That being said, despite all the disagreement, I think there is broad underlying agreement in this thread on two things: 1. It’s appropriate for PoC to get angry about topics pertaining to them and their race directly, as long as their anger is kept within reasonable limits. Nobody is saying they shouldn’t be allowed to show any anger in the least, nor is anyone saying it’s acceptable for them to flame away completely unrestrained. 2. PoCs shouldn’t _ **derail** _ threads that aren’t at least in some way related to their race or race-topic. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/50 "2021-06-12T21:28:00Z")
I wouldn’t phrase it as just “their race” only. [Indigenous peoples’ solidarity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenism) stretches past the bounds of mere ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/51 "2021-06-12T21:30:14Z")
Okay, maybe I should re-phrase. (too late for me to edit) But - the broader two points still remain - threads shouldn’t be hijacked, and anger is OK as long as it remains within reasonable limits. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/52 "2021-06-12T21:31:32Z")
Sure, I agree, but “reasonable limits” is where, I think, the mods fall down currently. They play far too hard into both-sidesing everything. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/53 "2021-06-12T21:52:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > the non-Indigenous telling one of the few indigenous to just not post on the topic of indigenous issues? Leaving any such thread a lovely echo chamber of genocide denial and White fragility, as we’ve seen. > > Maybe the Board would be better served by _listening_ to that anger rather than telling him not to be so _uppity_ . I would say “seconded” except a number of people seem to have beaten me to it. And he wasn’t “blowing things out of proportion.” This is a huge issue, and insisting that people must treat it as a minor one, and/or that they mustn’t criticize posts insisting that it’s only a minor issue, is IMO absurd. > [@mordecaiB](#): > > he got a thread ban for good reason, he derails threads all the time. He wasn’t derailing this one. He was trying to keep it on track. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > @slash2k’s initial comments weren’t that bad They looked pretty bad to me. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > @Banquet_Bear similarly misread moderator comments and his anger, while understandable, made it impossible for there to be a reasonable ATMB discussion on the issue as well. Why? Because he kept asking, and not getting an answer to, what specifically he had done to be threadbanned for that other people in the same thread hadn’t done without being banned? > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > My evaluation of it was that initially their comments on both sides were acceptable for the forum. However, their resulting back and forth was not, so both were thread banned. Why? Just because it was a back and forth? I went back and forth in that thread quite a bit with/against Martin\_Hyde and neither of us got threadbanned, or even noted. He called my arguments “warm piss” [edited to correct quote] and “stupid” and didn’t get threadbanned for it. > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > the thread was clearly no longer serving any practical purpose. The thread as a whole seemed to me to quite clearly be serving a practical purpose. What do you think its purpose was, if not to call people’s attention to and educate them about an outrage? > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > even if he’s right, that doesn’t give him a free pass to drive threads off the rails with it. The thread was not being driven off the rails. It was right exactly on the rails. It’s the people trying to say ‘this all happened in 1890’ or ‘this all happened in the 1930’s’ or ‘this didn’t really happen at all, it must have just been some one guy somewhere’ and in general trying to say that this discovery has nothing to do with the society we’re all living in now who are trying to drive it off the rails. And the moderators seem to think that it belongs off the rails. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/54 "2021-06-12T21:53:45Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > The thread was not being driven off the rails. It was right exactly on the rails. > > It’s the people trying to say ‘this all happened in 1890’ or ‘this all happened in the 1930’s’ or ‘this didn’t really happen at all, it must have just been some one guy somewhere’ and in general trying to say that this discovery has nothing to do with the society we’re all living in now who are trying to drive it off the rails. And the moderators seem to think that it belongs off the rails. Well put. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/55 "2021-06-12T23:57:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Sure, I agree, but “reasonable limits” is where, I think, the mods fall down currently. They play far too hard into both-sidesing everything. Well, on this message board, the reasonable limits are that if you want to berate another poster, we ask you to do that in the pit. I was too slow to moderate that thread, and too slow to realize what to do, but going forward I think moderation of that sort of thing should start with a mod note asking the angry poster to do exactly that, rather than by thread-banning him. With this software, you can even have a link to your pit thread show up attached to the post you wanted to reply to. (The same poster could, of course, give calm and factual rebuttals in the MPSIMS thread. But if that’s too distasteful, there’s no need to do both.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/56 "2021-06-13T00:02:11Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > It’s the patronizing pat on the head that you get to be disgusted at yet another insult but really, you must do it in a way to worry about the insulters sensibilities. But this is _always_ the pushback even if it is the supposed “patronizer” who is being insulted. No one should get a free pass at abrasively insulting people because of what some other people did. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/57 "2021-06-13T07:13:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “No detectable trace of anger in your posts” is _not_ a “board standard”. It’s a special one, strategically applied just for the uppity posters. That is not at all a fair characterization of the moderator note, and placing that in quotes implies a direct quote, which is, at best, extremely inaccurate. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/58 "2021-06-13T07:36:29Z")
If I wanted to do a direct quote, I know how the quote function works. I use quote marks for paraphrases or single/few word quotes. That sentence used both. And it’s an extremely charitable characterization of the mod note - would you like my _un_charitable read, which starts with “Just shut up, Angry Brown Man…” and gets worse from there? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/59 "2021-06-13T07:37:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > The same poster could, of course, give calm and factual rebuttals in the MPSIMS thread Being able to enact “calm and factual rebuttals” of open, unmodded genocide denialism is a nice privilege to have. Would you ask the Jews here to _only_ provide “calm and factual rebuttals” of Holocaust denial, and not let a trace of irritation show? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/60 "2021-06-13T10:05:08Z")
Add me to the people Who thought that thread closure was jaw-droppingly inappropriate. Engineer, please listen to what you’re being told here, and don’t be quick at all to defend your behavior. On which subject, I apologize for my own behavior in the previous thread, parsing words and making allowances that didn’t need to be made. Not good on my part. And I’m sorry. MrDibble’s OP here is exactly on point. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129/61 "2021-06-13T12:54:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > The same poster could, of course, give calm and factual rebuttals in the MPSIMS thread > > Being able to enact “calm and factual rebuttals” of open, unmodded genocide denialism is a nice privilege to have. > > Would you ask the Jews here to _only_ provide “calm and factual rebuttals” of Holocaust denial, and not let a trace of irritation show? A trace of irritation is routinely allowed. But if that Jew got really pissed, they should make use of the pit. That’s exactly what is for. And if more irritation leaked into their post than they intended, a mod should probably remind them to use the pit. I write this as a Jew who has, at times, lost patience with Holocaust deniers. As several have pointed out, this is a pretty hot-botton issue, and not just for indigenous people. A bunch of children were kidnapped, underfed, raped, brutally beaten, and allowed to abuse each either. The MPSIMS thread probably needs a companion pit thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineer-comp-geek-are-you-aware-how-racist-this-moderation-sounds/944129.md?page=4)