# Engineering an appearance in court? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 8, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775 "2023-05-08T23:50:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2023, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/1 "2023-05-08T23:50:39Z")
Since this topic is about Courts and the Legal System, I felt it belonged in this forum. Now, I’n not asking if the following is a legal undertaking (pretty sure it is illegal) … BUT… …are there interested parties…meant to be adversaries…who conspire to manufacture a situation for the purpose of a remedy in the courts? Decided by a Judge in order to create New Law? I figure, anti-collusion laws are in effect despite if the outcome is to establish legal precedent. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/2 "2023-05-09T00:20:09Z")
IANAL, but this was _extremely_ common in the days before no-fault divorce. If a couple both wanted a divorce their lawyers would arrange for the husband to check into a hotel with a young woman hired for the occasion and then a private defective hired by the wife would conveniently burst in to photograph them in bed (no actual sex was involved). The wife would then file for divorce on the grounds of adultery, the husband admitted guilt and didn’t present a defense. Both spouses, the detective, and “other woman” would all commit perjury. All of this was illegal, but since most of the couples involved tended to be wealthy and/or connected the authorities usually turned a blind eye (though I think England at one point had a court officer who was supposed to scrutinize cases for evidence of collision.) ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/3 "2023-05-09T00:22:14Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > …are there interested parties…meant to be adversaries…who conspire to manufacture a situation for the purpose of a remedy in the courts? The famous Scopes trial was one such “test” case. ETA: The law against teaching evolution was not being enforced when the ACLU, Scopes, and state prosecutors agreed to arrest Scopes and fine him a nominal fee just to get before a judge in court. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/4 "2023-05-09T00:24:18Z")
🥷🏾 > **[Scopes trial | Dayton, Tennessee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial#Dayton,_Tennessee)** > > The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) offered to defend anyone accused of teaching the theory of evolution in defiance of the Butler Act. On April 5, 1925, George Rappleyea, local manager for the Cumberland Coal and Iron Company, arranged a meeting with county superintendent of schools Walter White and local attorney Sue K. Hicks at Robinson's Drug Store, convincing them that the controversy of such a trial would give Dayton much needed publicity. According to Robinson, Rappleyea said "As it ... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/5 "2023-05-09T03:51:24Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > (though I think England at one point had a court officer who was supposed to scrutinize case-paras for evidence of collision.) Still does. See Wikipedia article with a sub-para about the “King’s/Queen’s Proctor”: > **[Proctor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proctor#King/Queen%E2%80%99s_Proctor)** > > Proctor (a variant of procurator) is a person who takes charge of, or acts for, another. > The title is used in England and some other English-speaking countries in three principal contexts: > In the United States and some other countries, the word "proctor" is frequently used to describe someone who supervises an examination (i.e. a supervisor or invigilator) or dormitory. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/6 "2023-05-09T04:44:12Z")
Rosa Parks, I think, is a perfect example of this. From wiki: > Parks was not the first person to resist bus segregation, but the [National Association for the Advancement of Colored People](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Colored_People) (NAACP) believed that she was the best candidate for seeing through a court challenge after her arrest… ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/7 "2023-05-09T10:45:32Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Rosa Parks i think that’s a little different than what the OP is talking about - Rosa Parks may have been chosen because she was the best candidate but she really did refuse to give up her seat and really was arrested as a result and it was spontaneous - no one decided that more white passengers would enter the bus , causing the bus driver to move the sign. I think the OP is talking about a staging , where it was arranged in advance that the bus driver would tell her to move , that she would refuse, that she would be arrested , etc. ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2023, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/8 "2023-05-09T10:46:08Z")
Ah, good examples. But were the Plaintiff/Prosecution and the Defense in cahoots to get Scopes and Rosa Parks to break specific laws in order to challenge those laws? ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2023, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/9 "2023-05-10T19:26:48Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > IANAL, but this was _extremely_ common in the days before no-fault divorce. If a couple both wanted a divorce their lawyers would arrange for the husband to check into a hotel with a young woman hired for the occasion and then a private defective hired by the wife would conveniently burst in to photograph them in bed (no actual sex was involved). The wife would then file for divorce on the grounds of adultery, the husband admitted guilt and didn’t present a defense. Both spouses, the detective, and “other woman” would all commit perjury. All of this was illegal, but since most of the couples involved tended to be wealthy and/or connected the authorities usually turned a blind eye Ah yes, the plot of The Gay Divorcee! A very fun film. > **[The Gay Divorcee](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gay_Divorcee)** > > The Gay Divorcee is a 1934 American musical film directed by Mark Sandrich and starring Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. It also features Alice Brady, Edward Everett Horton, Eric Blore, and Erik Rhodes. The screenplay was written by George Marion Jr., Dorothy Yost, and Edward Kaufman. It was based on the Broadway musical Gay Divorce, written by Dwight Taylor with Kenneth S. Webb and Samuel Hoffenstein adapting an unproduced play by J. Hartley Manners. > The stage version included many songs by C... ---
**Author:** ![EnolaStraight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@EnolaStraight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EnolaStraight)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/10 "2023-05-11T16:51:12Z")
Huh. Never saw the movie, but it seems to more-than-adequately illuminate my OP. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/11 "2023-05-11T17:07:51Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > …are there interested parties…meant to be adversaries…who conspire to manufacture a situation for the purpose of a remedy in the courts? Decided by a Judge in order to create New Law? I’m sure I read on this board a case where two companies mutually agreed to go to court in order to clarify a government regulation. My search ability is failing me, though. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/12 "2023-05-11T21:06:17Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I’m sure I read on this board a case where two companies mutually agreed to go to court in order to clarify a government regulation. My search ability is failing me, though. Are you thinking of the High Trees case? It concerned a rent control reg from WWII, and after the end of hostilities, the two companies couldn’t agree on how to resolve the dispute. One was a subsidiary of the other, but because of shareholder fiduciary liability, they needed to go to court to get a ruling. Lord Denning used it to try to revitalise the law of estoppel. I mentioned it in a thread a year or two ago, about “Friendly litigation” > **[Central London Property Trust Ltd v High Trees House Ltd](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_London_Property_Trust_Ltd_v_High_Trees_House_Ltd)** > > Central London Property Trust Ltd v High Trees House Ltd KB 130 is a famous English contract law decision in the High Court. It reaffirmed and extended the doctrine of promissory estoppel in contract law in England and Wales. However, the most significant part of the judgment is obiter dicta as it relates to hypothetical facts; that is, the landlord did not seek repayment of the full wartime rent. > Denning J held estoppel to be applicable if > a promise was made which was intended to create le... ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2023, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/13 "2023-05-11T21:12:18Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I mentioned it in a thread a year or two ago, about “Friendly litigation” I’m pretty sure it was that thread I was thinking about, but maybe the other case you mentioned: > [@Is the phrase 'friendly litigation' used by GOP Senator Josh Hawley a standard phrase?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/is-the-phrase-friendly-litigation-used-by-gop-senator-josh-hawley-a-standard-phrase/942170/13): > > I just happened to come across a case which is an example of this type of litigation: [Hydro-Electric Power Commission of Ontario v. The Coniagas Reduction Company, Limited, [1933] UKPC 44](http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKPC/1933/1933_44.pdf), on appeal from the Ontario Supreme Court to the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in London. At issue was an agreement between two companies that apparently had a good working relationship, but they could not determine if the agreement (which they had inherited from their predecessors) was perpetual i… ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2023, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/14 "2023-05-13T20:54:41Z")
> [@EnolaStraight](#): > > But were the Plaintiff/Prosecution and the Defense in cahoots to get Scopes and Rosa Parks to break specific laws in order to challenge those laws? For Rosa Parks, to the best of my knowledge, no. For the Scopes trial, yes. The ACLU solicited Scopes to break the law on purpose, going so far as to commission a newspaper advertisement for teachers willing to break the law. At trial, the defense asked the jury to find the defendant guilty because they wanted to challenge the law before an appeals court. The prosecutor, William Jennings Bryan, offered to help pay Scopes’s fine if he were to be found guilty. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2023, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-an-appearance-in-court/983775/15 "2023-05-14T01:22:47Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > i think that’s a little different than what the OP is talking about - Rosa Parks may have been chosen because she was the best candidate but she really did refuse to give up her seat and really was arrested as a result and it was spontaneous - no one decided that more white passengers would enter the bus , causing the bus driver to move the sign. When I climb into a tree stand with a rifle and bag myself a deer it can hardly be called spontaneous just because I had to wait for it to cross my path. Parks’ actions were a deliberate effort to create a case to stand before a court of law. While this doesn’t match the OP’s example of defendant and plaintiff engineering to get into court, Parks’ is an excellent example of at least one party engineering to get into court.