# Engineering for different countries / cultures - examples **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653 "2022-05-19T00:24:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/41 "2022-05-20T15:33:29Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > I’m talking about size and number of cupholders, not presence vs. absence. For instance, a five seat truck with 13 cupholders (number 6 on the list below). > > [11 Cars With Lots Of Cup Holders (Up To 12) | Motor & Wheels](https://motorandwheels.com/cars-with-the-best-cup-holders) My car has six cupholders, despite only having space for five occupants. Each of the four doors has one, and the center console has two more for the front-seat occupants. The door ones are actually kind of handy because you can put a bottle of water in there, and the console cupholders can be occupied by other stuff, whether it’s a cup of coffee or unopened mail or a cell phone or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/42 "2022-05-20T20:40:38Z")
I am an electrical engineer in a company that makes electrical control cabinets, for customers mainly in Europe and Asia - i.e. we work to CE requirements. Occasionally an end customer’s plant is in the US or Canada, and UL conformance is required. What strikes me is - the UL requirements seem mainly meant to prevent electrical fire, while CE is much more concerned with functional safety (of the controlled plant) and preventing electrical shock. - the cabinets shown in UL training material look a bit _quaint_ to an European engineer, not designed for rationalised/automated manufacture (e.g. components not on top hat rail; wiring often not routed in conduits but seemingly manually cut to length and manually seized together) - there is a lot of emphasis on screw terminals, which have long been on the way out for small and middle diameter wiring for the uses in Europe that I am familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/43 "2022-05-20T20:47:11Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Practically every intersection in my small town has a 4-way stop. It wastes enormous amounts of gas and also creates an awful lot of pollution. Including particulate matter from brake pads. Specifically four-way stops are something I as an European would have a lot of difficulties with - because for me encountering a stop sign _automatically_ means the crossing road has the right of way. Install four-way stop on an intersection in Germany and traffic will grind to a halt because everyone will wait for the cars in the crossing road to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2022, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/44 "2022-05-20T21:03:42Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > Specifically four-way stops are something I as an European would have a lot of difficulties with - because for me encountering a stop sign _automatically_ means the crossing road has the right of way. To avoid that situation in the US, 4-way stops often have a small sign underneath saying “all-way” or “4-way”. Not every such intersection has them, though. There’s a 2-way intersection I sometimes go through that’s kind of the opposite. It used to be 4-way. The last time they changed it, they put a sign below that says “cross traffic does not stop”. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/45 "2022-05-21T06:14:57Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > the UL requirements seem mainly meant to prevent electrical fire, while CE is much more concerned with functional safety (of the controlled plant) and preventing electrical shock. Pretty much. OSHA regulations deal with the safety side of things. > [@Mops](#): > > the cabinets shown in UL training material look a bit _quaint_ to an European engineer, not designed for rationalised/automated manufacture (e.g. components not on top hat rail; wiring often not routed in conduits but seemingly manually cut to length and manually seized together) I googled European industrial control cabinets and they don’t look much different from the stuff that my company makes. You’re probably looking at older pictures. > [@Mops](#): > > there is a lot of emphasis on screw terminals, which have long been on the way out for small and middle diameter wiring for the uses in Europe that I am familiar with. What do you use in place of screw terminals? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/46 "2022-05-21T08:43:17Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > … > What do you use in place of screw terminals? Cage clamp or other push in terminals. Main advantage in my opinion is that they do not creep loose. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/47 "2022-05-21T10:01:43Z")
Cage clamp and push in terminals are crap, in my opinion. Their advantage is that they are fast to install. The disadvantages are that for most of the designs you can’t inspect the connection to tell if the wire is still making a good connection or not, and the connection relies on spring tension which is going to wear out after a while. Then they will creep loose. Differences of opinion, I suppose. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Capacitrix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/die_capacitrix/32/9_2.png) [@Die\_Capacitrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Die_Capacitrix)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/48 "2022-05-21T12:45:43Z")
> [@Bonum\_Legatum](#): > > I have read that flatware, specifically forks, are made differently in Europe and America. The decoration is on “the other side”. Do you happen to have a reference for this? I don’t remember seeing this and am wondering if this is something that is no longer done due to market globalization. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In Europe, stop signs are relatively rare and there are fewer traffic lights. They are finally putting in circle at a place which had major backups due to cars having to wait so long for a gap in the traffic for turning left. They never had a light or stop signs - just a standard un-controlled T-intersection that’s been getting more traffic. I would go with doors for bathroom stalls, especially the locks. Most stalls, especially in Switzerland, have doors which go very close to the floor, plus there’s a lock which show green for unlocked and red for locked. No reason to try to look under the stall door to see if the stall is occupied. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/49 "2022-05-21T14:04:07Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > To avoid that situation in the US, 4-way stops often have a small sign underneath saying “all-way” or “4-way”. Not every such intersection has them, though. In other words, not only is a 4-way intersection more confusing (i.e. to a European driver), this trouble is compounded by the fact that not all intersections are 4-way (you must look for the little sign or its absence). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/50 "2022-05-21T14:06:02Z")
It’s not ideal. And then there’s the issue of who goes first when both arrived at seemingly the same time. I’m not a fan of four-way stop signs and would prefer roundabouts or traffic circles. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/51 "2022-05-21T14:15:15Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > I would go with doors for bathroom stalls, especially the locks. Yeah, but in this case it’s not just that the standards are different, it’s that in the US we have poorly designed bathroom stalls, with doors you can see around and under. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/52 "2022-05-21T14:18:19Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > the UL requirements seem mainly meant to prevent electrical fire, while CE is much more concerned with functional safety (of the controlled plant) and preventing electrical shock. Whereas this makes sense. The US is full of wooden buildings, and preventing house fires is extremely high on the list of “stuff regulations are good for”. And we also have electric current which is much less deadly than the European standard, so an occasional shock from a badly grounded device in the US typically just means an annoyed user, not any serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![Limmin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f04885/32.png) [@Limmin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Limmin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/53 "2022-05-21T14:21:16Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > and would prefer roundabouts or traffic circles. I guess these are safer overall. One of my university colleagues (leader of a research group) has said they may increase accidents / crashes, but decrease fatalities, so, overall a better case. They put in a very large number of roundabouts in the Purdue U area (Lafayette, Indiana and environs) over the past decade. They still can cause a little anxiety though. I approach them a fairly high speed, and so does everyone else, so I always wonder if the mini-van approaching from the right will stop and let me drive in front of them, or will they just jump into the circle and force me to slam on the brakes. I wonder if there are other ways to implement roundabout design that minimizes this problem or if it’s just a worldwide issue and must be lived with. ---
**Author:** ![jjakucyk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3d9bf3/32.png) [@jjakucyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjakucyk)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/54 "2022-05-21T14:55:30Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, but in this case it’s not just that the standards are different, it’s that in the US we have poorly designed bathroom stalls, with doors you can see around and under. That’s partly intentional, it prevents people from using bathroom stalls for sexy fun times. It’s also easier to mop the floor. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/55 "2022-05-21T14:56:24Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > Don’t American cars have big cupholders (and lots of 'em) compared to foreign cars? That’s a recent development. My '96 Buick that I lately got rid of had only a single cup holder. And it wasn’t particularly big. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/56 "2022-05-21T15:02:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > And we also have electric current which is much less deadly than the European standard, so an occasional shock from a badly grounded device in the US typically just means an annoyed user, not any serious problem. “Much less deadly” is not very accurate. The only real difference between the two systems is how many people they can kill simultaneously. [https://www.elcosh.org/document/1624/888/d000543/section2.html](https://www.elcosh.org/document/1624/888/d000543/section2.html) > **[Amperage, Not Voltage, Poses the Greatest Danger With Electrical Shock](https://www.thespruce.com/amperage-vs-voltage-1152476)** > > The real danger with electrical shock is amperage, not voltage. Learn what the difference is and how to stay safe when working with electricity. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/57 "2022-05-21T15:04:51Z")
> [@jjakucyk](#): > > it prevents people from using bathroom stalls for sexy fun times. No it doesn’t. It just makes it more awkward for other users of the restroom. At least, my male acquaintances assure me there is an annoying level of sex in large public restrooms. ---
**Author:** ![paulmarkj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@paulmarkj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulmarkj)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/58 "2022-05-21T17:00:44Z")
An minor one, but one that always stands out to me: Chain link fences in the US usually have a bar across the top but in the UK they have no bar. Just google chain link fence USA and then chain link fence UK . I don’t know why, but I do know the UK ones are really hard to climb! ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/59 "2022-05-21T17:31:14Z")
If you are really tall, it is easier to find clothes that fit off the rack in retail outlets in Denmark than in Vietnam, and vice versa. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2022, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653/60 "2022-05-21T17:51:47Z")
> [@Limmin](#): > > I guess these [roundabouts] are safer overall. One of my university colleagues (leader of a research group) has said they may increase accidents / crashes, but decrease fatalities, so, overall a better case. Because of the geometry of roundabouts, the accidents that happen in them are mostly sideswipes, which is why the fatality/serious injuries decrease. And accidents don’t even always increase, especially when there are other roundabouts in the area so drivers are already familiar with how to drive them. > [@Limmin](#): > > They put in a very large number of roundabouts in the Purdue U area (Lafayette, Indiana and environs) over the past decade. You think you have a lot? Try going over to Carmel (northern suburb of Indianapolis). They’re on a mission to replace every traffic light in the city with roundabouts. So far, they have about 140 of them. OK, not quite every light; I understand there’s one they won’t be able to replace, although I don’t know which one it is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/engineering-for-different-countries-cultures-examples/964653.md?page=4)