# England and Slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 25, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356 "2010-12-25T13:52:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/41 "2010-12-27T20:07:50Z")
> [@qazwart](#): > > There were two classes of indentured servants. There were those who served a master for a set period of time. And, there were those who indenturetude was a wee bit longer (like forever).. Did they really draw up indenture papers for 50K Irish men, women, and children? My impression was that it was a lot less formal than that, and that the whole process was extralegal at best: a mass kidnapping that no one in power cared to stop. Basically, a bunch of Irish ended up in the sugar islands with no one to speak for their rights and were by any definition slaves. Their legal status was never tested because no one with any standing spoke for them. The argument that they were indentured servants seems to be circular: The Irish were indentured servants, not slaves because slaves were black, and we know this because the Irish were all indentured servants. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/42 "2010-12-27T21:24:16Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Did they really draw up indenture papers for 50K Irish men, women, and children? My impression was that it was a lot less formal than that, and that the whole process was extralegal at best: a mass kidnapping that no one in power cared to stop. It wasn’t extralegal, exactly. Most of the people transported were soldiers taken prisoner and their families. Remember, Ireland had been in rebellion for 11 years at that point. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/43 "2010-12-27T23:12:08Z")
After the capture of Drogheda on 11th September 1649 Cromwell writes: _“The next day, the other two towers were summoned, in one of which was about six or seven score ; but they refused to yield themselves, and we knowing that hunger must compel them, set only good guards to secure them from running away until their stomachs were come down. From one of the said towers, notwithstanding their condition, they killed and wounded some of our men. When they submitted, their officers were knocked on the head, and every tenth man of the soldiers killed, and the rest shipped for the Barbadoes. The soldiers in the other tower were all spared, as to their lives only, and shipped likewise for the Barbadoes. I am persuaded that this is a righteous judgment of God upon these barbarous wretches, who have imbrued their hands in so much innocent blood ; and that it will tend to prevent the effusion of blood for the future, which are the satisfactory grounds to such actions, which otherwise cannot but work remorse and regret.”_ This is not a simple English-Irish thing; The officers were all English, a good part of the troops were as well, and as the losing side in the Civil War who had refused the summons to surrender they could scarcely have expected better when the town fell. A plot point in the Errol Flynn picture _Captain Blood_, is that the hero, getting caught up in Monmouth’s Rebellion, is [unjustly] sold into indentured servitude in the West Indies. (Although this film contains many anachronisms and inaccuracies) ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/44 "2010-12-28T02:35:58Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Two questions that may have some factual answers … > > 1. To what extent if any did England encourage slavery and perhaps even resist movements toward ending slavery prior to our independence? > > 2. In the 1830’s when England abolished slavery, how did the economics of slavery compare between England’s colonies and the U.S. ? I can offer no more than one considered opinion. The USA is England’s spawn. England is the spawn of Rome. Hitler was a mere belch on our way to globalization. Questions? ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2010, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/45 "2010-12-28T18:20:17Z")
It’s hard to blame Mother England for slavery in the U.S. The first slaves in the Jamestown colony were brought by Dutch traders who had obtained them (IIRC) from Spanish colonies in the Caribbean. Slaves proved a better solution for Virginia planters than indentured servants. You didn’t have to constantly replace them, and they proved more resistant to heat and disease than servants from the British Isles. Now of course, the Jamestown colonists were themselves English, so I guess if you were really determined to blame the English for slavery you could look at it that way. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/46 "2010-12-29T13:52:31Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Now of course, the Jamestown colonists were themselves English, so I guess if you were really determined to blame the English for slavery you could look at it that way. … and we were far from independent until the revolution. Prior to starting this thread I heard reference on the radio (can’t remember by whom) to efforts that were made to alter slavery but resisted by Parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/47 "2010-12-29T14:56:51Z")
On an episode of Q.I. it was said that there are more slaves in the world today then there has ever been in history.27,000,000. Apparently these figures come from the U.N. And I believe that we’re talking about actual slavery here not indentured servants. I had a quick scan of the net but couldn’t find the report myself so I can’t attest to the accuracy of the statement one way or another, but then again its not a subject that interests me that much. If you are GENUINLY upset by slavery as opposed to looking for a stick to beat Brits or Americans or Europeans with …whatever, then why don’t you actually do something to help these people right here,right now. Rather then crying crocodile tears for long dead people, and shouting moral outrage against long dead slavers . Who’s turn is it next ? The Romans? The Ancient Egyptians? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/48 "2010-12-29T18:02:47Z")
Please forgive the nitpick, but since I saw it more than once, I hope this suggestion won’t be unwelcome: > [@](#): > > manor courts which \*\*were ran \*\*by the feudal lord > [@](#): > > which \*\*were ran \*\*by the feudal lord They were _run_ by the feudal lord. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356/49 "2010-12-30T13:25:36Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > … and we were far from independent until the revolution. > > Prior to starting this thread I heard reference on the radio (can’t remember by whom) to efforts that were made to alter slavery but resisted by Parliament. Prior to reading this thread I heard reference on the radio (can’t remember by whom) that efforts were made to alter slavery and they weren’t resisted by Parliament. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-and-slavery/565356.md?page=2)