# England designates Iceland as a terrorist country **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635 "2008-11-01T21:53:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/1 "2008-11-01T21:53:51Z")
[New York Times story here.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/world/europe/02iceland.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=rssyahoo&emc=rss) This is related to Iceland’s banking collapse. Apparently England wanted assutrance that Iceland could cover the insured amounts of deposits of collapsing Icelandic branches in Great Britain. Somewhat like the FDIC, all accounts in England are supposed to be insured so depositors don’t lose everything. According to Iceland, they said they needed more time meet their obligation, as covering those costs amount to more than 60% of their GDP. According to England, Iceland said, “we have no intention of meeting our obligations”. Anyway, it seems that declaring a country is supporting terrorism is a shortcut to seizing whatever assets it has in reach. Which is what England has now done with the banks on its territory. And, the designation shuts down most of the remaining international banking transactions and credit available to Iceland. So all the sudden they are extra-fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/2 "2008-11-01T22:14:06Z")
Holy crap! I wonder whether **WormTheRed** is okay. ☹ This sounds exactly like one of those asshole pull-the-plug-instead-of-working-it-though things that cause the mess it was allegedly trying to avoid. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Are they _trying_ to restart the Vikings? Maybe Canada should start accepting refugees? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/3 "2008-11-01T22:23:24Z")
As usual, the Government has taken over 1000 years to come to this conclusion. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/4 "2008-11-01T22:28:26Z")
This is weeks-old news. And it’s the UK, not England. And FWIW a lot of people here were not happy about invoking this law against Iceland. It could have been handled more diplomatically. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/5 "2008-11-01T22:45:31Z")
> [@Usram](#): > > It could have been handled more diplomatically. Boy, there’s the understatement of the century. What the UK is doing is disgusting. It’s a disgrace to their name, the Crown, and their reputation. You’d think Vladimir Putin had been elected Prime Minister. It borders on open belligerence. How proud they should be for bullying a helpless little nation. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/6 "2008-11-01T22:49:31Z")
:eek: ☹ :mad: Good God–what good can come from this? Whose decision was it? (parliment, house of lords, the PM, who?) ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/7 "2008-11-02T00:21:32Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Boy, there’s the understatement of the century. > > What the UK is doing is disgusting. It’s a disgrace to their name, the Crown, and their reputation. You’d think Vladimir Putin had been elected Prime Minister. It borders on open belligerence. How proud they should be for bullying a helpless little nation. Woah, I wouldn’t go that far. It may have been graceless, but OTOH Britain has 200 times the population of Iceland, so it is reasonable for the British government to place the needs of its citizens above the stability of a country equivalent in population to a small British city. Many British citizens stand to lose money if the Icelandic banks go under. It would have been remiss of the government to do nothing. But I agree that we should have been more tactful with them. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/8 "2008-11-02T00:29:35Z")
> [@Usram](#): > > This is weeks-old news. And it’s the UK, not England. And FWIW a lot of people here were not happy about invoking this law against Iceland. It could have been handled more diplomatically. Couldn’t agree more. If anybody needs an example of “function creep” to argue against dranconian ‘anti-terrorism’ laws, here’s a prime example. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/9 "2008-11-02T00:44:52Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Couldn’t agree more. If anybody needs an example of “function creep” to argue against dranconian ‘anti-terrorism’ laws, here’s a prime example. To be fair, the Bank of England offered a £100m loan to Landsbanki to help them out. Then the Icelandic government said it would deal with Icelandic customers first, leaving something like £1B worth of UK public funds (councils, police forces, schools etc) and untold millions in deposits from UK citizens vulnerable. The UK treasury had no option but to seize the Icelandic assets to protect the UK public. It’s unfortunate that the law that governs the seizure of assets is in the “Anti-terrorism, crime and security act 2001” but it most certainly doesn’t “declare Iceland a terrorist nation or a supporter of terrorism”, that is just the way that the Icelandic government has chosen to portray the move because they’re going to get hammered in their next election. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/10 "2008-11-02T00:53:37Z")
Can we agree that it’s rather problematic in the long term that the PM decided to pick and choose which act to invoke, like he’s ordering a curry? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/11 "2008-11-02T01:11:23Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > To be fair, the Bank of England offered a £100m loan to Landsbanki to help them out. Then the Icelandic government said it would deal with Icelandic customers first, leaving something like £1B worth of UK public funds (councils, police forces, schools etc) and untold millions in deposits from UK citizens vulnerable. The UK treasury had no option but to seize the Icelandic assets to protect the UK public. It’s unfortunate that the law that governs the seizure of assets is in the “Anti-terrorism, crime and security act 2001” but it most certainly doesn’t “declare Iceland a terrorist nation or a supporter of terrorism”, that is just the way that the Icelandic government has chosen to portray the move because they’re going to get hammered in their next election. This is the relevant quote from the news story: > [@](#): > > “I must admit that I was absolutely appalled,” the Icelandic foreign minister, Ingibjorg Solrun Gisladottir, said in an interview, describing her horror at opening the British treasury department’s home page at the time and finding Iceland on a list of terrorist entities with Al Qaeda, Sudan and North Korea, among others. > > In a volatile economic climate, in which appearance matters almost as much as reality, being associated with terrorism is not a good thing. > > “The immediate effect was to trigger an almost complete freeze on any banking transactions between Iceland and abroad,” said Jon Danielsson, an economist at the London School of Economics. “When you’re labeled a terrorist, nobody does business with you.” Now, [if this is the right place](http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/home.htm), I can’t find such a list there. That’s not to say there wasn’t one a couple weeks back that’s been pulled down for political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/12 "2008-11-02T01:15:27Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Can we agree that it’s rather problematic in the long term that the PM decided to pick and choose which act to invoke, like he’s ordering a curry? What could he have done that would get your approval? Which other Act contains the provision to seize assets? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/13 "2008-11-02T01:16:50Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > What could he have done that would get your approval? > > Which other Act contains the provision to seize assets? I think an outright declaration of war would take care of that nicely. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/14 "2008-11-02T01:19:40Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I think an outright declaration of war would take care of that nicely. 🙂 The Cod Wars got really nasty, Icelandic naval ships fired on UK fisherman and unarmed fishery support vessels sheltering from a storm. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/15 "2008-11-02T01:22:39Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > The Cod Wars got really nasty, Icelandic naval ships fired on UK fisherman and unarmed fishery support vessels sheltering from a storm. Seriously? Did they hit anybody? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/16 "2008-11-02T01:23:25Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Seriously? Did they hit anybody? Icelandic and UK ships collided due to the storm, but the actual shots missed. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/17 "2008-11-02T01:27:20Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > What could he have done that would get your approval? > > Which other Act contains the provision to seize assets? Look, if the UK’s alternatives were to either declare Iceland a terrorist state and seize its assets, or not seize the assets of an ally under false pretenses, I think it’s bloody obvious what the right thing to do here was. The UK’s actions are sickening, especially when you consider that UK law doesn’t even provide for the seizure of assets in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/18 "2008-11-02T01:30:05Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Look, if the UK’s alternatives were to either declare Iceland a terrorist state and seize its assets, or not seize the assets of an ally under false pretenses, I think it’s bloody obvious what the right thing to do here was. The UK’s actions are sickening, especially when you consider that UK law doesn’t even provide for the seizure of assets in this situation. Not with over £1B in public funds at risk. Inaction wasn’t an option. They had already tried offering funds to support the failing bank, and that didn’t help. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/19 "2008-11-02T01:34:59Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Look, if the UK’s alternatives were to either declare Iceland a terrorist state and seize its assets, or not seize the assets of an ally under false pretenses, I think it’s bloody obvious what the right thing to do here was. The UK’s actions are sickening, especially when you consider that UK law doesn’t even provide for the seizure of assets in this situation. What were the false pretenses? The seizure may have been made under the Terrorism act, but everybody is aware of the real reasons for the seizure, and the UK governments has never implied otherwise. If billions of pounds of your nation’s money is going to disappear up the swanny, _why_ shouldn’t the government step in and start seizing assets? Isn’t this precisely why we elect governments? ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635/20 "2008-11-02T01:45:12Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Now, [if this is the right place](http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/home.htm), I can’t find such a list there. That’s not to say there wasn’t one a couple weeks back that’s been pulled down for political reasons. This is the current list - [link](http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/fin_sanctions_currentindex.htm) - clearly stating that the asset freezing measures taken against Landsbanki are not related to terrorist or country-based financial sanctions. However, on the Icelanders are NOT terrorists protest site there’s a [screen shot](http://www.indefence.is/News/News/~/NewsId/13) showing that until the 22nd of October, no distinction was made in that list. A balls up, sure, but a balls up on a web page isn’t exactly the same thing as declaring Iceland a terrorist state. On preview, here’s the [Beeb’s](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7662827.stm) take on it all. Note that while the Government used The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, the Act itself is very broad: > [@](#): > > The Act is in fact very broadly based and says that assets can be frozen in the UK if the Treasury “reasonably believe” that “action to the detriment of the United Kingdom’s economy (or part of it) has been or is likely to be taken by a person or persons, or action constituting a threat to the life or property of one or more nationals of the United Kingdom…” > > The person against whom action is taken has to be either a foreign government or resident. UK Governments have long made a habit of using whatever Act comes to hand to do what it wants to get done and one should never trust that an Act’s name bears much of a relation to what it actually does. The language is normally designed to readily allow for feature creep. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/england-designates-iceland-as-a-terrorist-country/470635.md?page=2)