# English and Gaelic names for Irish places

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [April 5, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782 "2005-04-05T03:15:40Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 5\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\
**Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782/21 "2005-04-06T20:00:55Z")

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Also, “Tír Chonaill” is an old name for Donegal (Dún na nGall - the fort of the foreigners).

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**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\
**Post date:** [April 6, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782/22 "2005-04-06T21:26:43Z")

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[QUOTE=Jerevan SomervilleSo what we have here are two settlements, one which was built up around the “black pool” and the other around the ford; and in time they grew together and became indistinguishable.[/QUOTE]

There’s a diagramme [here](http://www.dublincastle.ie/history1.html#) showing the relative positions of the two settlements, the ford, the rivers Poddle and Liffey, and the Black Pool.

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**Author:** ![Jerevan\_Somerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@Jerevan\_Somerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerevan_Somerville)\
**Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782/23 "2005-04-07T00:32:01Z")

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> [@hibernicus](#):
>
> Also, “Tír Chonaill” is an old name for Donegal (Dún na nGall - the fort of the foreigners).

Does this truly fit the criterion (he asked, fully cognisant of the perils inherent in posing such a question to someone called **hibernicus** )?

According to my guide to Irish Place Names (referenced above) _Dún na nGall_ was the name of the Danish settlement (now Donegal town), while _Tír Chonaill_ (Tirconnell) was the name of the **region** , a reference to the “land or district of Connell Gulban, son Niall of the Nine Hostages”.

Which leads me to ask: is either “County Donegal” or “Donegal Town” called _Tír Chonaill_ in Irish today? Or, failing that, was _Tír Chonaill_ **ever** truly synonymous with either town or county?

If neither is the case, then I’d have to say this example does not fit the **OP** ’s criterion.

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**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\
**Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782/24 "2005-04-07T05:48:16Z")

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I frequently see Co. Donegal referred to as “Tír Chonaill” in modern Irish usage.

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**Author:** ![Jerevan\_Somerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@Jerevan\_Somerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jerevan_Somerville)\
**Post date:** [April 8, 2005, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-and-gaelic-names-for-irish-places/297782/25 "2005-04-08T16:03:39Z")

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> [@ruadh](#):
>
> I frequently see Co. Donegal referred to as “Tír Chonaill” in modern Irish usage.

Cool. (And I notice you don’t give your location as “Dublin”, ha. 😉 )

**Wendell** , at last we have a winner!

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