# English as 2nd language but no accent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142 "2013-11-17T21:15:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/21 "2013-11-18T06:58:16Z")
Didnt read intervening posts, but most likely their teachers were from Illinois or other central American states. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/22 "2013-11-18T07:41:26Z")
I have known a handful of people who spoke English like a native speaker. An old German friend comes to mind, and he is now a German-studies professor in Louisiana. No trace of a German accent whatsoever when he speaks English. His father was involved in the cotton industry and so spent a lot of time in Texas, while he himself studied for his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in that state. I remember a Frenchman who had no discernible French accent either. A Thai lady the wife and I know was born in Bangkok to a wealthy family – they’ve served as ambassadors, stock-exchange heads etc over the generations – but was raised in California. She speaks English so well that she speaks Thai rather slowly and with an American accent. She told me her English was so good after growing up in California that she sometimes would sit Toefl exams for other Thais while there. She was an attractive young Thai girl and looked like a million others, so she could walk in with her friends’ ID easily without getting called on it. An elderly Australian gentleman I knew here in Thailand was complimented occasionally on how well he spoke English by some Thais. They seem to think he’s from _Austria_. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/23 "2013-11-18T07:56:58Z")
It could be they just don’t have an accent noticable by you. English is my 2nd language, and although I started learning it in school in 4th grade and heard it on TV and in movies all the time I didn’t use it extensively until college when I had English language textbook and read English fiction. I certainly have an accent, as I often, in the Scandinavian way, mix up the pronunciation of v and w, but otherwise I’m so “accent-free” Americans I’ve met through work have asked me how long I’ve lived in Norway, thinking me an ex-pat. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/24 "2013-11-18T08:15:29Z")
I’ve known two hostel-goers from Holland, who spoke English in what sounded to me like a perfect midwestern American accent. Those Dutch have some kind of spy training program going on, I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/25 "2013-11-18T09:20:34Z")
Songs ,singing Kaoroke, may have introduced many to the english “accent”. As they were children when they heard the music they developed the part of the brain to an expert in speaking English ? Also they are learning by speaking and not (much) by reading ? ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/26 "2013-11-18T09:59:16Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I have known a handful of people who spoke English like a native speaker. An old German friend comes to mind, and he is now a German-studies professor in Louisiana. No trace of a German accent whatsoever when he speaks English. His father was involved in the cotton industry and so spent a lot of time in Texas, while he himself studied for his bachelor’s and master’s degrees in that state. I remember a Frenchman who had no discernible French accent either. > > A Thai lady the wife and I know was born in Bangkok to a wealthy family – they’ve served as ambassadors, stock-exchange heads etc over the generations – but was raised in California. She speaks English so well that she speaks Thai rather slowly and with an American accent. She told me her English was so good after growing up in California that she sometimes would sit Toefl exams for other Thais while there. She was an attractive young Thai girl and looked like a million others, so she could walk in with her friends’ ID easily without getting called on it. > > An elderly Australian gentleman I knew here in Thailand was complimented occasionally on how well he spoke English by some Thais. They seem to think he’s from _Austria_. And I forgot this one friend of mine here in Thailand. He’s an American but was born in Stockholm to an American father and Swedish mother. Swedish is his first language, but he was raised speaking English too. His parents divorced when he was 15 or 16, and his father took him to California. He’s about 40 now, and you’d never believe English was not his first language. No Swedish accent at all. It’s a California accent! (A lot of Swedes died in the 2004 tsunami here, and my friend was instrumental in coordinating with the Swedish Embassy.) ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/27 "2013-11-18T10:51:07Z")
I don’t think age is the only factor. I have two friends in London who came here in their 20s and speak flawless, accentless (or rather, London-accented) English. One is German, and has worked hard at being a ‘local’, speaking not only without a noticeable German accent but also with all the slang words and stresses you would only expect from someone born here. She’s also great at mimmicking regional British accents and does a great impression of my Welsh girlfriend. The other is a French actress who splits her time and work 50/50 between London and Paris. She has worked slavishly to speak accentless English as she didn’t want to just get parts as ‘the French waitress’. She’s on staff at the Royal Shakespeare Company, so has been extremely successful as speaking perfect English. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/28 "2013-11-18T11:31:13Z")
And then there’s a Bangladeshi reporter here in Bangkok who comes from a wealthy family and went to university in Connecticut (not Yale). He sounds exactly like an American. “Wealthy family” seems to be a common thread in many of these. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/29 "2013-11-18T11:59:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > In my (extensive) experience meeting people for whom English is not their native tongue (and who are not Danes), the rule of thumb is: if they were immersed in English when they were 14-15yo and younger, there is no accent. Anything above - accent, from slight to heavy. I came to the US at 16 - slight accent (although who knows, maybe it came from my years in Israel). My wife came at 11yo - no accent. My brother at 10 - no accent. The exceptions being, if they grew up in a country where a lot of people speak English more or less “natively,” but it’s an odd, regional form of English. My wife is from Malaysia, where a significant portion of the urban population grows up learning two languages simultaneously: Malaysian English, and their “home language” (Malay or Chinese, or, as in my wife’s case, Tamil. She also learned Malay starting around kindergarten.) Typically they’ll start picking up the English around three years old, having already learned their first words in their “home” language. Anyway, this early learning of English makes it HARDER for them to adopt a more familiar-to-us accent if they move to the US (or Uk, or Australia…) as an adult. They never have to worry about “interference” (the technical term for how one’s native tongue imposes an “accent” on how later-learned languages are pronounced), but they can never nail down a Midwestern US English accent, say, the way many late-English-learners can (such as someone who moves to the US from Mexico as a young adult and starts learning English for the first time at that point). Sure, my wife has picked up enough US accent that her Malaysian English is different than what’s spoken in Kuala Lumpur, but her Mexico-born friend who learned English much later in life sounds much more American than she does. Basically, when you learn a language, you’re pretty much stuck with the regional accent you happen to learn first. (I’ll always speak Spanish like a Mexican – with a mildly Yucatecan accent, specifically!). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/30 "2013-11-18T13:50:13Z")
ETA: Maybe I should have used a different term than “home language” (for Chinese, Takil, etc.), because Malaysian English is also spoken inside the home (I did mention that children start using it typically at three years old, so it’s almost a co-first language). Many parents these days speak Tamil or Chinese to each other (or mix in English – constant code-switching), but make a conscious effort to speak (Malaysian) English to and around their young children. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/31 "2013-11-18T14:11:19Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > And I forgot this one friend of mine here in Thailand. He’s an American but was born in Stockholm to an American father and Swedish mother. **Swedish is his first language, but he was raised speaking English too**. His parents divorced when he was 15 or 16, and his father took him to California. He’s about 40 now, and you’d never believe English was not his first language. No Swedish accent at all. It’s a California accent! Emphasis mine: I would venture to say that he has two first languages, Swedish and English and with a, probably, Californian father I find it not strange at all if he has a Californian accent. This reminds me of something I overheard on the bus going to work this morning. A father discussed, in English, with a quite small child (I couldn’t see him/her) the similarities between the words “two”, “två” and “zwei” (it would have been even more similar if he had used the other German word for two “zwo”). ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/32 "2013-11-18T14:25:25Z")
Another example: actress Alona Tal, born and raised in Israel, has no noticeable foreign accent when speaking English. [Example](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ-tqVTi43A). - (OK, I can hear a very slight accent, especially in her "t"s, but I have a good ear for Israeli accents and I’m actively listening for it. She was on \*Supernatural \*for three years before I realized she was anything other than American.) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/33 "2013-11-18T14:39:28Z")
A lot depends on the person’s natural abilities and how much effort they put into working on it. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/34 "2013-11-18T15:05:00Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Emphasis mine: I would venture to say that he has two first languages, Swedish and English and with a, probably, Californian father I find it not strange at all if he has a Californian accent. He considers Swedish his first language. I’m not sure how much he used English outside the home while in Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/35 "2013-11-18T15:32:31Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > He considers Swedish his first language. I’m not sure how much he used English outside the home while in Sweden. That would be quite natural growing up here, but I do suspect that his English was much better than the average child of his age. Most children I know from bilingual families have no problems with daddy’s language and mommy’s language. The only exception I can think of is a friend of mine who regretted that he never made an effort to speak English with his children so they learned enough to be able to communicate with their grandparents. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/36 "2013-11-18T15:37:33Z")
I’ve worked in call centers for several years. I’ve noticed that some of my callers seem to have no accent (compared to my “normal” of standard midwest American) at the beginning of a call, but the longer it goes on (or if they get frustrated), their accent bleeds through more and more. Of course, I have no idea if someone calling me learned English as a first or second language. But I think it’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/37 "2013-11-18T17:42:46Z")
> [@Asympotically\_fat](#): > > This is ancedotal, but Danish people seem to be able to speak English with flawless/near-flawless North-West English accents: > > Jan Molby is a well-known Danish soccer player who arrived in England aged 21 (after a two-year stint in the Netherlands), but he speaks English with a flawless scouse (Liverpool) accent. To hear him speak you would never guess that he wasn’t born and raised outside of the Liverpool area, much less that he didn’t even start living in England until he was an adult. Here’s a video of him speaking: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXvHApppG78](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXvHApppG78) > > Similarly Peter Schmeichel, Danish goalkeeper who is regarded by many as the best goalkeeper in the history of soccer, came over from Denmark to England aged 27 and he speaks English with a near-perfect Mancunian (Manchester) accent. His accent is pretty much flawless, but sometimes he gives away that he isn’t speaking his mother tongue when he trips over words. Here’s an interview with him: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmt35152Qk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVmt35152Qk) Not quite. Both still sound Somewhat Danish but have picked up an almost pantomime Liverpool accent- a caricature rather than native. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/38 "2013-11-18T18:09:03Z")
Felipe, the prince of Spain speaks pretty good English. [- YouTube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPYENc8uwfU) Which is the more remarkable because the Spanish are terrible when it comes to speaking languages and it seems like speaking a foreign language disqualifies a person from any important government position. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/39 "2013-11-18T19:06:22Z")
I grew up in the Netherlands and I did not really spend time in English-speaking countries until I moved to Canada (and Montreal, at that) four years ago at the age of 27. Nonetheless, unless I tell people I am Dutch they generally assume I am from North America and are frequently surprised to hear that I’m not. I’ve had to show people ID to convince them. Once they know, they’ll sometimes catch me making small mistakes in idiom and pronunciation, but those are not noticeable enough to set off foreign-speaker alarms. Of course, English in particular is a language that shows such diversity among native speakers that many things that are actual mistakes may be attributed by listeners to their own ignorance of what English speakers from different countries sound like and what rules they follow. Although there is a lot of English on Dutch TV, I did not start formally learning until I was 12. My high school did offer extra English taught by a native speaker but I never really experienced actual immersion into an English-speaking country. I did spend some time dating an American girl, so there’s that, but on the whole I would say that I speak English as well as I do because I have a certain talent, a good ear, and a way of imitating native speakers. In other languages that I speak, my pronunciation is generally pretty good as well, and often better than it is for people whose skill set (writing, listening, use of vocab, etc.) is otherwise similar to mine. I proofread this but I’m sure there’s going to be a mistake in here that will make people say that I’m not telling the truth. But really, I am! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142/40 "2013-11-18T19:55:21Z")
> [@eltro102](#): > > I was born in India, learnt some English there along with Hindi up till age ~7 and then came over the UK. I remember having a relatively distinctive accent for a few years, but I think that was more to do with the people I was around. After we had moved around a bit and I started to live with just my mum, my accent vanished and now people are pretty surprised to hear that I’m not native English. > > bascially I think your accent depends on your parents and the people you hang arounds’ accents Wow. I was born in India and came over when I was four. I was already speaking fluent Hindi and have been told stories of having to learn English in kindergarten. My dad still has a strong accent but I don’t have any trace of my Indian accent left. Mostly my accent is a combination of flatlander, having grown up in Michigan, and a tiny bit of upstate New York, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-2nd-language-but-no-accent/674142.md?page=3)