# English as a Satellite-Framed Language - Looking for Examples **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960 "2023-10-01T16:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/1 "2023-10-01T16:12:21Z")
In this [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-clocks-on-milky-way-and-andromeda-galaxies-be-identical/990889/5), **Whack-a-Mole** wrote the following sentence : > [@Would clocks on Milky Way and Andromeda galaxies be identical?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-clocks-on-milky-way-and-andromeda-galaxies-be-identical/990889/6): > > As such, the space where Andromeda **is poofed into existence** at the same moment that the Milky Way did (as well as everywhere else in the universe). It made me smile smile because it reminded me of a topic I had considered working on when I wanted to pursue a PhD, namely [verb-framing and satellite-framing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verb_framing). Romance languages are verb-framed because the path of the movement is encoded in the verb (entrar, entrer, entrare) and the manner is either expressed in a complement, or not expressed at all. Germanic languages are, broadly speaking, satellite-framed because the path of the movement is encoded in a particle and the manner in the verb (to walk in). There’s this classic example : La botella **entró** a la cueva _(flotando)_. The bottle _floated_ **into** the cave. (Talmy, 1985) This may seem like a detail, but it actually has some important consequences, one being that satellite-framed languages can extend this process to verbs that are not, or not primarily verbs of movement. Such constructions are usually incredibly difficult to translate into a verb-framed language. > [@Slobin (2006)](#): > > Why, for example, is the following sign quite normal (albeit amusing) in the San Diego Zoo, whereas it would be inconceivable in Le Parc Zoologique de Paris? > > DO NOT TREAD, MOSEY, HOP, TRAMPLE, STEP, PLOT, TIPTOE, TROT, TRAIPSE, > MEANDER, CREEP, PRANCE, AMBLE, JOB, TRUDGE, MARCH, STOMP, TODDLE, > JUMP, STUMBLE, TROD, SPRING, OR WALK ON THE PLANTS. Over the years, I’ve come across many other examples of creative satellite-framed constructions. Here are a few (the last two would require a very long and clunky translation in French or Italian): 1. I _waltzed_ her **across** the floor. 2. A couple of months ago we would have _laughed_ him **out** of town. 3. She _screamed_ him **away** from the altar. 4. Women who _married_ **up** the social ladder, how is it going? 5. He _bear-hugged_ me **off** my feet. 6. My husband _fat-shamed_ me **into** surgery. Can you think of other examples, preferably funny, surprising or creative ones ? I read a post here a few months ago about a Doper who ate Quebec out of something. I remember thinking that was a great example, but I cannot find it anymore. PS, I’m too old for homeworks, and I’ll never have a PhD. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/2 "2023-10-01T16:15:00Z")
Teenagers famously eat their parents out of house and home. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/3 "2023-10-01T16:30:13Z")
He _painted_ himself **into** a corner. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/4 "2023-10-01T16:31:20Z")
> **[I Fucked My Way Into This Mess, And I'll Fuck My Way Out](https://www.theonion.com/i-fucked-my-way-into-this-mess-and-ill-fuck-my-way-out-1819584315)** > > I'll say it. I like to fuck. I do it a lot. And sometimes it gets me into unfortunate situations. Like right now. Right now I am royally fucking fucked. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/5 "2023-10-01T20:06:42Z")
That was some mighty f\*\*\*ing fine f\*\*\*ing writing. F\*\*\* yeah! ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/6 "2023-10-02T08:49:26Z")
> [@InternetLegend](#): > > Teenagers famously eat their parents out of house and home. > [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > He _painted_ himself **into** a corner. > [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > [I Fucked My Way Into This Mess, And I'll Fuck My Way Out](https://www.theonion.com/i-fucked-my-way-into-this-mess-and-ill-fuck-my-way-out-1819584315) Great examples, thanks. That’s exactly what I’m looking for. In the meantime, I’ve found the post I was thinking of in this [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kouign-amann/985648) (bolding mine). Another perfect fit. > [@Kouign-amann](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/kouign-amann/985648/1): > > Not watching the F1 GP, but tagging along with people who are so **I can eat Quebec into a famine** (not sorry) while people are distracted by the race. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/7 "2023-10-02T12:16:22Z")
Damn, I love this board. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/8 "2023-10-02T15:58:53Z")
Maybe not quite what you’re looking for but this thread brings to mind “[This is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put](https://quoteinvestigator.com/2012/07/04/churchill-preposition/),” which is frequently misattributed to Winston Churchill. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/9 "2023-10-02T16:09:50Z")
From _Winnie the Pooh and Tigger Too_: > **Narrator:** Well, Tigger, your bouncing really got you into trouble this time. > > **Tigger:** Say, who’re you? > > **Narrator:** I’m the narrator. > > **Tigger:** Oh well, please, for goodness sakes, **narrate me down from here!** ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/10 "2023-10-02T16:16:50Z")
In another thread I mentioned a series on Netflix called The Imperfects about people with genetically enhanced abilities. One of them can produce a high pitched shriek that will shatter glass and knock people out. Another produces pheromones that induce people to anything she tells them to please her. The former might say something like “If he gets loose I’ll banshee him” and the result is implied. The latter will be more specifically referenced with phrases like “You can pheromone him into talking”. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/11 "2023-10-02T16:49:50Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The former might say something like “If he gets loose I’ll banshee him” and the result is implied. The latter will be more specifically referenced with phrases like “You can pheromone him into talking”. Now we’re getting into [all-nouns-can-be-verbed](http://catb.org/jargon/oldversions/jarg271.txt) territory. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/12 "2023-10-02T21:53:40Z")
Could you explain why the zoo sign would be impossible in French? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/13 "2023-10-02T22:14:20Z")
I thought I knew a lot about linguistics, but this is a new distinction for me. My wife is quite fluent in French, so I asked her how would you say, “They laughed him off the stage.” She thought about for a minute and finally admitted she didn’t know. I mean you could explain it in a couple sentences. Something like “Il est sortie du scène a cause du rire de l’auditoire.” But that doesn’t have the bite of the original. And pardon my French; I’m just guessing here. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/14 "2023-10-02T22:18:20Z")
I have always found that the prepositions in French and English are the most difficult idiomatic parts of the two languages. In English, the choice of prepositions can change the meaning of the verb, in a way that doesn’t seem to happen as much in French. “they laughed him off the stage” is a great example, because “laughed” has a completely different meaning there than than “they laughed” and it’s the preposition that does the change. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/15 "2023-10-02T22:31:43Z")
I think it is just that these kinds of particle verbs and separable verbs are common in English and German but not in Romance languages, not that the sets of available prepositions in each language are completely alien. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/16 "2023-10-03T03:00:00Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > “they laughed him off the stage” is a great example, because “laughed” has a completely different meaning there than than “they laughed” and it’s the preposition that does the change. Not completely different, It has an extra meaning. 1. they laughed. 2. this this caused him, apparently at least, to enact 3… 3. he left to leave the stage, ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/17 "2023-10-03T03:15:36Z")
> [@Moonrise](#): > > La botella **entró** a la cueva _(flotando)_. > The bottle _floated_ **into** the cave. After translation: The boat entered the cave, floating. The boat floated into the cave. Well, perhaps we need to look at the history of rules in languages. What inspired Latin to have so many rules ? They took the language without rules, and tried to make it so that it had to be used with rigid rules. Did it succeed ? It worked under authoritarian rule… it worked in courts of law and in exchanges between politicians, and religions… As the empire grew, it became unworkable, as dialects were using different rules. We don’t have the dialect problem any longer, we can keep English as the one lingo franca language all over the world without having breakdown in usefulness (ie needing rules, which means idiom deleted.) ? But with the modern ability to research the meaning of such idioms, do we allow more and more idioms to be accepted ? “The shoe factory was sabotaged.” could be hard for a dutch speaker to understand. Australia owns its own continent. All other countries are incontinent. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/18 "2023-10-03T03:33:09Z")
Oh in Australia, the media is saying things like , a made up example, “The government has ditched the submarines plan because it has bad optics.”… Maybe they could just order German or Japanese optics for the Americans submarines ? But they mean, it ins’t politically accepted. The population has a different “view”…“It doesn’t pass the pub test” is another way to say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/19 "2023-10-03T10:36:04Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Australia owns its own continent. All other countries are incontinent. No, some of them are in islands. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2023, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960/20 "2023-10-03T12:26:50Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > **Tigger:** Oh well, please, for goodness sakes, **narrate me down from here!** > [@TriPolar](#): > > “You can pheromone him into talking” > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > …“They laughed him off the stage.” Adding these to my collection, thanks ! > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Could you explain why the zoo sign would be impossible in French? It could be done, there are French equivalents for all of these verbs, I think. But it wouldn’t be done. No one would actually write such a sign. It’d be more confusingly verbose than funny. Plus syntactically, there would probably be a problem with where you’d put the negation. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > …“They laughed him off the stage.” She thought about for a minute and finally admitted she didn’t know. I mean you could explain it in a couple sentences. Something like “Il est sortie du scène a cause du rire de l’auditoire.” But that doesn’t have the bite of the original… I’d say _Les rires de l’auditoire l’ont forcé à quitter la scène_ or _Il a dû quitter la scène à cause des rires de l’auditoire_ but as you say it doesn’t have the biting conciseness of the original, and it doesn’t even sound really idiomatic in French. > [@Isilder](#): > > What inspired Latin to have so many rules ? > They took the language without rules Hmmmm… I’m not sure what you mean here. All languages have rules. Even when they’re not written down in a Grammar, all languages have a grammar. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-a-satellite-framed-language-looking-for-examples/990960.md?page=2)