# English as the "official" language of the US **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 6, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066 "2012-05-06T13:45:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/141 "2012-05-12T02:15:58Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Except…people living in a country should learn the language of that country. It’s simple courtesy, if nothing more. When I lived in Indonesia, I learned Indonesian. I wasn’t expert in it (didn’t live there long enough), but I could carry on conversations with only occasional resorting to the pocket dictionary. That’s putting the cart before the horse. There is no “language of the United States.” Spanish speakers were here before English speakers, and speakers of other languages were here earlier still. Which brings us nicely to… > [@Lust4Life](#): > > I have no dog in this fight, but would making Spanish an official U.S. language set a precedent for others to claim official staus as well ? > > The Native American languages spring to mind, plus perhaps French, Mandarin and some of the other European languages. Certainly. More importantly, making English an official US language would set a precedent for Spanish,\* et al,\* to claim official status as well. It should be noted, since it may have been missed, that English is not currently an official language of the US. It’s the _de facto_ language of the law, but not the _de jure_ language of anything on a national level. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/142 "2012-05-12T02:47:54Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Canada only functions because the French and English speakers are physically separate and Quebec is semi-autonomous. Certainly not, any more than black and white populations in the states are physically separate. I’m living proof, as is the rest of my huge French Catholic Albertan family. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/143 "2012-05-12T02:57:46Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Certainly not, any more than black and white populations in the states are physically separate. I’m living proof, as is the rest of my huge French Catholic Albertan family. Still speak French at home? (Or whatever you call that language they speak in Quebec. I’ve heard that Frenchmen deny it is French. Rather indignantly.) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/144 "2012-05-12T17:44:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > What makes a language “a language of the country” is that a certain percentage of the people speak it. If those numbers change, then it can change what “a language of the country” is. At one time, English was not a language of North America. Things changed. Things might change again. It should be dependent on the individual choices of people who use language, not imposed by fiat. The point goes to “country”, not continent. And let it be chosen by the people. I think that’s correct. Let them vote on it. It does a country well to have an official language to bind them. and this is important at times of high immigration, not back when there were few people coming in. It’s a common denominator for people from countries A, B, C, D, E, and F now living in Country X. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/145 "2012-05-12T17:45:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Certainly. More importantly, making English an official US language would set a precedent for Spanish,\* et al,\* to claim official status as well. Which is why there should be one (1) Official Language. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/146 "2012-05-12T18:28:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Which is why there should be one (1) Official Language. In terms of administrative convenience, sure. In terms of principle, no. See post #134. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/147 "2012-05-12T21:51:57Z")
delete because could not perform edit in time ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/148 "2012-05-12T22:17:09Z")
(from post #134) > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > This is America, Jack. As a nation, we have accepted the principle that the rights of the individual generally trump administrative convenience, Do we? What about this page from the USGOV Naturalization Requirements: [U.S Citizenship and Immigration Services: Path to U.S. Citizenship](http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=86bd6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=86bd6811264a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD) (from link): > [@](#): > > If you are a green card holder of at least 5 years…[or if you] have been a permanent resident (green card holder) for at least 3 years [and] have been living in marital union with the same U.S. citizen spouse during such time, **you must meet the following requirements** in order to apply for naturalization : > > **Be able to read, write, and speak English** and have knowledge and an understanding of U.S. history and government (civics). (from post #134) > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > and one of those rights is to retain the religion, language and culture of one’s ancestors. Would that include the right to having court proceedings to which one is a party conducted in the language of one’s ancestors? You’re the one who’s in law school, Jack. Please don’t try to tell me that when you get out in the real world you would really prefer to have to deal on a regular basis with 22 languages, or something like that. (from post #134) > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > India has 22 official languages, not counting the 500-odd languages recognized as official at the state or local level. Not only that, but much more authority is vested in the central government than in our system. Despite that, Indians do just fine in terms of political discourse. No, per Wiki India has two country-wide official languages: Hindi and _English_. Although there may be 22 different languages recognized as official at the state level, it is at the insistence of the non-Hindi speaking states that _English_ has been retained as an official language almost 50 years after the date (1965) when it was to have been phased out. However, it seems that there is only one official language for the Federal court system, and that language is— _English_! [Indian Judiciary System](http://www.barandbench.com/index.php?title=Language%20in%20Courts%20-%20a%20bridge%20or%20a%20barrier?&page=brief&id=805&gn=0) [quote=] …On the other hand **Article 348 of the Constitution states the language to be used in the Supreme Court and High Courts and for Acts and Bills etc. shall be English.** Permission will be granted for use of Hindi only by the President and of any other language and translation of the same shall be made available in English. The former Chief Justice of India, Justice Balakrishnan rejected the proposal on the use of languages other than English saying, “The Supreme Court and all the High Courts should have a common language. English should continue to be the language of the Supreme Court and all the High Courts, until in due course Hindi becomes rich and ripe enough to take its place and regional languages should not be introduced as languages of High Courts.” Justice Balakrishnan added, “If regional language is permitted to be used in orders, decrees and other proceedings of the High Court, it will create difficulties for the judges who may not know the regional language, in order to discharge their judicial functions. The translation being a costly affair may not be accurate and may not reflect the true import of the judgment or order of the High Court. This will cause delay in disposal of cases in Supreme Court.” [/quote] So, it seems there is at least one multilingual country with what I would call a healthy appreciation for the benefits of a common administrative langauge. (from post #141) > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > …making English an official US language would set a precedent for Spanish, et al, to claim official status as well. Nonsense. Providing the historically predominant language with official status entails no logical obligation to provide any minority language with the same. Of course, the American legal profession is so good at getting a hearing for all kinds of completely ridiculous shit, maybe I’d better not go too far out on a limb here. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/149 "2012-05-12T23:17:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In terms of administrative convenience, sure. In terms of principle, no. See post #134. You mean this? > [@](#): > > This is America, Jack. As a nation, we have accepted the principle that the rights of the individual generally trump administrative convenience, and one of those rights is to retain the religion, language and culture of one’s ancestors. You confuse the people’s “right” (assuming that’s even the right word) to retain it and the government helping them do so. I don’t know where you get that notion from. If a Dane, Ghanan, Turk, Brazilian, Lapplander, Italian, or Maori, want to retain their language and culture, they can go right ahead and do so. There is zero reason why the government should spend on dime or lift one finger in helping them do so. Now, they shouldn’t impede their desire to retain it, but a basel;one of zero is all that is called upon. And it is in the best interest of the host nation to have as much a common tongue as possible. That’s the state’s interest in things from and efficiency standpoint, which is beneficial to all who reside within it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/150 "2012-05-12T23:44:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Still speak French at home? (Or whatever you call that language they speak in Quebec. I’ve heard that Frenchmen deny it is French. Rather indignantly.) I don’t speak it, actually. But it was the first language of my Dad and all his brothers and sisters and most of my cousins, and they still speak French in their homes. One of my aunts is the principal of a Francophone elementary school in Edmonton, too; École Père-Lacombe. I was surprised someone had the impression that French- and English-speaking populations are kept separate, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/151 "2012-05-13T00:22:33Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > If you want a Spanish speaking government, then you have a whole continent to choose from. Which continent would that be? Not any one I’ve ever heard of. Hint: Half of South America speaks Portuguese. ---
**Author:** ![NUFCToon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4bbf92/32.png) [@NUFCToon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NUFCToon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/152 "2012-05-13T01:16:42Z")
It’s a different variation of English than what say the English spoken in England is…what is the problem with it being the official language anyways? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/153 "2012-05-13T01:44:25Z")
> [@NUFCToon](#): > > It’s a different variation of English than what say the English spoken in England is…what is the problem with it being the official language anyways? It’s already the _de facto_ language of law and commerce. It would be a waste of time, energy, and money to create a silly law that made it “official,” leading to numerous money wasting lawsuits filed to discern just what “official” meant in the context of various situations. Why bother, just to enrich more lawyers? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/154 "2012-05-13T01:48:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Why bother, just to enrich more lawyers? You say that like it’s a bad thing?! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/155 "2012-05-13T03:25:36Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > (from post #134 > Would that include the right to having court proceedings to which one is a party > conducted in the language of one’s ancestors? > > You’re the one who’s in law school, Jack. Please don’t try to tell me that when > you get out in the real world you would really prefer to have to deal on a regular > basis with 22 languages, or something like that. I am under the impression that federal law requires that linguistic difference does not prevent access to justice, and that the court system in the U.S. is one domain that seems to consistently recognize the importance of multilingualism, by providing interpreters as needed by defendants or the state. For example, Nebraska has passed some very nasty anti immigrant laws recently, yet even it’s state law requires interpretive service for civil as well as criminal proceedings. I hope you are not suggesting that is too much to ask for colonialist. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/156 "2012-05-13T03:38:25Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > However, it seems that there is only one official language for the Federal court system, and that language is— _English_! Are you under the impression that when someone comes before an indian court, he or she is forced to participate in English, even if he or she doesn’t understand it? There are translators, evidence is given in the preferred language of witnesses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/157 "2012-05-13T03:54:25Z")
> [@florez](#): > > I am under the impression that federal law requires that linguistic difference does not prevent access to justice, and that the court system in the U.S. is one domain that seems to consistently recognize the importance of multilingualism, by providing interpreters as needed by defendants or the state. > For example, Nebraska has passed some very nasty anti immigrant laws recently, yet even it’s state law requires interpretive service for civil as well as criminal proceedings. I hope you are not suggesting that is too much to ask for colonialist. Of course lingustic difference does not prevent access to justice, and I did not think it would be necessary to refer to provision for interpreters where interpreters are needed. That does not mean that a right exists to conduct an entire trial in the non-English langauge of one’s choosing. Now that you bring it up, however, I hope you would agree it would be best to work to reduce the extra trouble and expense such measures entail, and that means taking whatever steps most effectively promote universal fluency in English. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/158 "2012-05-13T03:58:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Are you under the impression that when someone comes before an indian court, he or she is forced to participate in English, even if he or she doesn’t understand it? There are translators, evidence is given in the preferred language of witnesses, etc. No, I was not under that impression. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/159 "2012-05-13T04:02:24Z")
Well, that’s the kind of thing that “official English” advocates in the United States are trying to do, to actually prohibit the use of other languages in official situations, such as courts, and barring accommodation for litigants or other participants who aren’t comfortable with English. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066/160 "2012-05-13T04:13:27Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Well, that’s the kind of thing that “official English” advocates in the United States are trying to do, to actually prohibit the use of other languages in official situations, such as courts, and barring accommodation for litigants or other participants who aren’t comfortable with English. What do you mean by “prohibit the use of”? Isn’t English now the required language of all US courtrooms? And I do not believe that anyone except possibly a tiny fringe would contest the right of non-English speaking _criminal_ defendants to an interpreter. As for non-English-speaking civil litigants don’t they now depend on English-speaking counsel to keep them informed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-as-the-official-language-of-the-us/621066.md?page=9)