# English Bull dogs birth **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361 "2001-09-08T05:17:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Podalack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@Podalack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podalack)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/1 "2001-09-08T05:17:33Z")
Somebody told me English bulldogs have been bred to the point where their skulls are so big, they no longer fit through the birth canal. They must be delivered Caesarean section. Can anyone give me the scoop on this? Also, the same person said their bones are so dense, they have trouble swimming. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/2 "2001-09-08T05:37:48Z")
[This site](http://www.faqs.org/faqs/dogs-faq/breeds/bulldogs/) is the faq for bulldogs on the Usenet dog group, rec.pets.dogs. By the way, they say that there is no such thing as an “English” bulldog. There are “bulldogs” and “French bulldogs.” Here is the relevant part of that faq: > [@](#): > > Q13. Why are they often born by Caesarean section? > A13. As a breed, they have large heads and small hips and therefore small birth canals. Well, that’s the commonly held belief which is probably just a myth. > > Here are some other reasons for C-sections: > > Bulldog Bitches, due to their high tolerance for pain, often ignore nature’s signals to “Push” the puppies out. Any dog can take a long time to deliver an entire litter of puppies. An hour or more between pups is not unusual, and if the litter is large, the delivery time can last 8 or more hours. Bulldogs will just forget it, and go to sleep. > > Secondly, Bulldogs have a higher than normal record of producing “Anasarca” puppies. These are fetuses that do not drain fluid in a normal manner, and end up as water-filled puppies, often weighing two to three times what a normal pup weighs. They are so large that they will not fit through the pelvic opening in the birth canal. If this is one of the first puppies in line to be delivered, none hind it will get out. Until the availablility of ultra sound, there was no way of predicting if the bitch had one of these in-side her. Even with ultrasound, it is difficult. A number of years ago, U of Michigan conducted a study trying to determine what caused this problem (it also happens with human babies). Ultra sound was used to try to determine when the water problem developed during the gestation period. No predictable patterns were discerned. The problem seemed to be related to a zero thyroid function in the fetus. Generally, these pups do not live more than a few minutes, even born through C-Sections. > > So the C-Section is routinely used to avoid having to do one on an emergency basis, whether due to an Anasarca pup, or just to make sure that all have been delivered naturally… how do you know how many are there? The high value of a bulldog puppy makes it cost effective to do the C-section rather than risk loosing even one puppy. > Anasarca may be hereditary, but after several years of study supported by the Morris Animal Foundation, so familial connects were found. Repeat breedings of the same sire and dam did not produce Anasarca puppies. > > Here are some arguments against C-sections: > > Not accepting the puppies is the down side of C-sections. The mothers internal hormones are not yet in action, and she doesn’t know that she has had puppies. Sometimes there may be near disasters in the first 48 hours. A hormone shot can be given that brings the milk in and starts the maternal instinct going. The length of time between birth and acceptance depends on when, in the gestation period the C-section was performed. > > As you can see, discussing whether or not it is right or wrong to breed dogs which are often born in this manner is good flame bait. Haj ---
**Author:** ![straykat23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@straykat23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straykat23)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/3 "2001-09-08T06:32:13Z")
I had a sweet bulldog (named “Apple” by her breeders) who had a false pregnancy. She was delivered to the stud when the time was right and the stud’s breeder said that everything went as was expected. I took her to the vet who calculated when delivery would occur and told me to begin taking her temperature (anally) at a certain time and to be sure to bring her to him when her temperature reached a certain point because bulldog deliveries were difficult due to their head size. (Sorry I’m being so vague about times, but it was awhile ago.) Apple’s stomach distended and she exhibited some pregnancy characteristics described in dog books (again, being vague). When the appointed time came, I faithfully took her temperature, and when it reached the high point indicated by the vet, I took her to his office. He asked if I would like to be present during the delivery and I replied, “Yes.” Two days later he called to say that she had not delivered and could he do an X-ray. I told him to do so, and he phoned back to say that there were no pups! Apple had a false pregnancy and ‘delivered’ a large amount of gas! He said that this was not uncommon with bulldogs. At this time I was living in Kansas City where it was very hot and humid during the summer months. Apple had great difficulty breathing and this, along with the false pregnancy, proved to me that these dogs have been over-bred. I’ve read that their smashed-in faces were developed so that they and their dog ancestors could fight better - without an elongated nose they are able to attach themselves to a foe’s jugular. Apple died two years later from a respiratory ailment. She was given the best care and lots of attention. I’ll never own another bulldog and think that any dog overbred to this extent should be phased out. Sorry… I really loved that dog. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/4 "2001-09-08T20:15:35Z")
Seems to me the real Baron Frankenstein didn’t make men from sewn up electrocuted corpses - he bred dogs :(. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/5 "2001-09-08T20:29:14Z")
I’m sorry to hijack, but I’d like to comment on overbreeding and hyperdevelopment of characteristics. Pugs are another breed that has fallen victim to this. Their faces have been bred to be so flat that they often have respiratory ailments, and the wrinkles on their faces are a hotbed for bacteria if you’re not careful to clean them out with a Q-tip - the dog can’t clean her own face due to the wrinklage. It’s a shame. Not very long ago, pugs’ flat-facedness was still obvious, but much less overdone… ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2001, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/6 "2001-09-08T20:48:31Z")
It’s obvious from the name of the breed that bulldogs were not exactly a Good Idea from the start, but at least to begin with they were healthy and could birth their own offspring naturally. Check out any number of C18th English paintings for examples of what they looked like back then. If you were looking for someone to flame about this sort of stuff [this](http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/index.asp?section=crufts/cruftsframe.html) might be a good place to start. There’s got to be an American quivalent too, but I’ll leave it to you and Google to find it. The weird thing is that people who deliberately breed infirmity into their pets should claim to love them. ---
**Author:** ![Swirdle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4bbf92/32.png) [@Swirdle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swirdle)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2001, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-bull-dogs-birth/80361/7 "2001-09-09T09:30:00Z")
You might mean ENGLISHBULLTERRIER, similar to Staffordshire Bull Terrier, both are short and stocky, huge head to accommodate huge (‘molegrip’) jaws, Queen Anne (bow) legs, bred to be fighting dogs. The face shape allows blood to drain off easily, apparently(as with similar bull dog breeds with wrinkly faces). These do indeed have major birth problems for reasons mentioned. They have been bred to to the point of distortion/deformity, English Bull Terriers cannot even wash their own backsides! Pugs are smaller and of a similar shape and are not ever expected to birth without the C-section. The damned Kennel Club and its standards. I don’t know about their competence at watersports.