# English horn vs. oboe **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 18, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111 "2004-06-18T20:40:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/1 "2004-06-18T20:40:07Z")
Do these instruments have similar origins and purposes? They look almost identical, but somewhere I read that the English horn is larger and is, IIRC, “a pitch lower than the oboe.” That makes me think the English horn is identical in tone to the oboe, just lower in tone. Is a pitch an octave? What are the key differences between these two woodwinds? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/2 "2004-06-18T21:02:21Z")
A “pitch” lower doesn’t mean anything. A pitch is the musical term for a frequency; it is an absolute measure. For example, A is a pitch, and its frequency is 440 Hz. Differences can be expressed as half and whole steps, or Hz. B is a pitch. A is one whole step lower than B. However, the English horn is lower pitched (not a pitch lower). I do not know about the history of these instruments but they are both double reeds. In a double reed the sound is made by two reeds vibrating against each other. (A clarinet, in contrast, has a single reed.) There is also the bassoon, an even lower pitched double reed. I also don’t know what keys these instruments are in but that will tell you exactly the difference in pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/3 "2004-06-18T21:19:44Z")
If you do a Google search on “history oboe english horn”, you’ll find sites aplenty pointing out that the English Horn is an alto oboe, so it’s the same technlogy, just a bit bigger so that it plays a 4th or 5th below the oboe. One site points out that they were based on the shawm, but modified for indoor use. Good call. Those suckers would take the powder right of your wig. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/4 "2004-06-18T21:28:52Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > Is a pitch an octave? > > What are the key differences between these two woodwinds? The English horn is in F, so a written C sounds as the F a fifth lower. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/5 "2004-06-18T22:06:25Z")
In the UK, “oboe” means “tramp.” In the US, “hobo” means “a large serving of ice cream.” ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/6 "2004-06-18T22:14:06Z")
Biffy the Elephant Shrew is correct. One of the more crucial differences between the two instruments is that the English Horn will burn a bit longer than the oboe, being a somewhat larger instrument. ---
**Author:** ![Fritz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c57346/32.png) [@Fritz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fritz)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/7 "2004-06-18T22:20:47Z")
> [@Fritz](#): > > Biffy the Elephant Shrew is correct. One of the more crucial differences between the two instruments is that the English Horn will burn a bit longer than the oboe, being a somewhat larger instrument. …though neither will burn quite so long as a bassoon. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/8 "2004-06-18T22:26:52Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > A “pitch” lower doesn’t mean anything. A pitch is the musical term for a frequency; it is an absolute measure. For example, A is a pitch, and its frequency is 440 Hz. Differences can be expressed as half and whole steps, or Hz. B is a pitch. A is one whole step lower than B. However, the English horn is lower pitched (not a pitch lower) To elaborate - the cor anglais (the common English name for the English Horn, just to be awkward) has a _lower compass_ than the oboe. > [@](#): > > I also don’t know what keys these instruments are in but that will tell you exactly the difference in pitch. Instruments are not ‘in keys’. They are chromatic. Some (but not any double reeds) are _notated_ in transposed keys, but this doesn’t tell you anything about their compass. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/9 "2004-06-19T00:00:27Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Instruments are not ‘in keys’. They are chromatic. Some (but not any double reeds) are _notated_ in transposed keys, but this doesn’t tell you anything about their compass. Beg pardon? Transposing instruments most definitely are ‘in keys’. The English Horn, as mentioned above, is in the key of F. Meaning a written C will actually sound as the F a fifth lower. Clarinets come in the keys of Bb, A, and Eb, string instruments are in C, etc. Perhaps you are confusing the meaning of the word ‘key’ as it applies to transposing, and as it might apply to an instrument that can only play in one key, such as a toy piano or a viola. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/10 "2004-06-19T00:03:44Z")
A trumpet is “in Bb”, but _not_ “in the key of Bb”. The music has a key, not the instruments. And yeah, I forgot the cor was transposing :smack: ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/11 "2004-06-19T00:12:54Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > To elaborate - the cor anglais (the common English name for the English Horn, just to be awkward) has a _lower compass_ than the oboe. > Instruments are not ‘in keys’. They are chromatic. Some (but not any double reeds) are _notated_ in transposed keys, but this doesn’t tell you anything about their compass. Very true, my bad. I was not familiar with the term “compass”, and I got sloppy. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/12 "2004-06-19T00:14:59Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > A trumpet is “in Bb” But wait, you just said: > [@](#): > > Instruments are not ‘in keys’ As for putting an ‘in the key of’ in front (instead of just ‘in’), it’s perfectly acceptable. > [@](#): > > The music has a key, not the instruments. Thanks for the update, professor. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/13 "2004-06-19T00:24:14Z")
\*An American violinist walks into a music store in England, and tells the clerk he needs to buy an ‘E’ string. The clerk goes back and comes out with a big box of violin strings. “Find it yourself”, the clerk says. “I can’t tell an ‘E’ string from a ‘She’ string”\* > [@AskNott](#): > > In the UK, “oboe” means “tramp.” > > In the US, “hobo” means “a large serving of ice cream.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/14 "2004-06-19T00:28:28Z")
Is the oboe as hard to play as I’ve heard? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/15 "2004-06-19T00:28:41Z")
> [@Jpeg Jones](#): > > As for putting an ‘in the key of’ in front (instead of just ‘in’), it’s perfectly acceptable. Acceptable? It’s certainly incorrect. “In Bb” is not a designation of a key, it’s a designation of transposition. Which, in any case, has nothing to do with the structure of the instrument, and exists purely in its relationship to notated music and to other instruments. > [@](#): > > Thanks for the update, professor. Just doing my bit to dispell ignorance. And no respectable professor would give a straight answer, anyway 😃 ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/16 "2004-06-19T00:37:09Z")
> [@F. U. Shakespeare](#): > > \*An American violinist walks into a music store in England, and tells the clerk he needs to buy an ‘E’ string. > > The clerk goes back and comes out with a big box of violin strings. > > “Find it yourself”, the clerk says. “I can’t tell an ‘E’ string from a ‘She’ string”\* Bet he could tell it from a G-string. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/17 "2004-06-19T00:46:32Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > … > > In the US, “hobo” means “a large serving of ice cream.” As in “a whole bowl”? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/18 "2004-06-19T00:57:43Z")
It makes more sense if it is “in the South”. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/19 "2004-06-19T02:43:06Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > If you do a Google search on “history oboe english horn”, you’ll find sites aplenty pointing out that the English Horn is an alto oboe, so it’s the same technlogy, just a bit bigger so that it plays a 4th or 5th below the oboe. One site points out that they were based on the shawm, but modified for indoor use. Good call. Those suckers would take the powder right of your wig. I don’t understand what a “4th or 5th below the oboe” means. How would that compare to, say, an octave? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111/20 "2004-06-19T03:23:22Z")
> [@Laughing Lagomorph](#): > > As in “a whole bowl”? > > 😕 Indeed. Our babysitter, when I was a wee Nott, told us a joke about, “But, mama, how can we have mo’ lasses, when we ain’t had no 'lasses yet?” She was from Mississippi. This is a surprisingly diverse town, for central Indiana. I know folks born in Kyoto, Talledega, Chattanooga, New Orleans, Kashmir, Montreal, Amarillo, Cairo (Egypt,) East Los Angeles, and Providence, Rhode Island. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-horn-vs-oboe/251111.md?page=2)