# English language not define the meaning of the word evil? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2017, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669 "2017-02-24T21:21:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/21 "2017-02-25T16:28:16Z")
FWIW, here’s the definite meaning of “evil” by famous English scholar [Howlin’ Wolf](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osnDVXlhxPw). ---
**Author:** ![sweat209](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@sweat209](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sweat209)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/22 "2017-03-03T11:40:02Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > And in reality, the average English speaker in everyday conversation or writing would in fact say say “Having too much booze or being always drunk is bad” or “…is harmful” or “…is a vice”, depending on the message they are trying to send and the audience. And they know exactly what is the difference between the evil murderer and the evil bad kid. > > It’s called context of usage, cultural familiarity and linguistic socialization - someone with an adequate level of fluency can grasp what is being meant. Even in the case of the languages where there are Academies to ensure everyone’s on the same page (Spanish, French), there is recognition of that reality. _“Mal”_ can be “bad” or “wrong” as adjective or “disease” or “evil” as noun and the Academia is just fine with that. Even in “dead” language Latin, _DOMINVS_ depending on where you use it can be a master of the manor, a lord of your realm, or it can be “The LORD thy God”. So what is the point of the dictionary? What does the dictionary do than? If I understand the dictionary does not tell you what words to use or how to use words but socially the culture the people in group dictate not the dictionary. If there was ever alien contact from other world how would you ever communicate if English language is so loosely that only being culturally emerged where just a misunderstand of a word could cause space war with alien race or major problems. Or may be the problem with the word evil was translating it well from other language and thus is why English language is the way it is because under language x the word evil means this word and if we don’t have this word that well mean we cannot understand. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/23 "2017-03-03T12:03:35Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > If 6 billion people on earth where to learn new languages call it new earth languages 11 would we still have this problem? Or would it come into play translating old text or other languages or old languages that this problem can happen even if 6 billion people on earth where to learn new earth languages 11 we have yet to invent. We would still have this “problem” since this is how language works. English may be “worse” than some of the languages you’re more familiar, but no language have only truly narrowly defined words, because that’s not how people use words. If you invented a new language with three clearly ranked words for “bad” people would “misuse” them from day one. They’d be used wrong for deliberate exaggeration, for humorous purposes, for deliberate understatement, and so on, and people would most of the time understand from context, because that is how language processing works. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/24 "2017-03-03T12:56:35Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > If there was ever alien contact from other world how would you ever communicate if English language is so loosely that only being culturally emerged where just a misunderstand of a word could cause space war with alien race or major problems. This sentence alone could trigger an interstellar war. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/25 "2017-03-03T13:19:42Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So what is the point of the dictionary? What does the dictionary do than? Definition of dictionary plural dictionaries 1 : a reference source in print or electronic form containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactic and idiomatic uses 2 : a reference book listing alphabetically terms or names important to a particular subject or activity along with discussion of their meanings and applications 3 : a reference book listing alphabetically the words of one language and showing their meanings or translations in another language 4 : a computerized list (as of items of data or words) used for reference (as for information retrieval or word processing) > **[Definition of DICTIONARY](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dictionary)** > > a reference source in print or electronic form containing words usually alphabetically arranged along with information about their forms, pronunciations, functions, etymologies, meanings, and syntactic and idiomatic uses… See the full definition ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/26 "2017-03-03T15:21:28Z")
This is hardly unique to English. In Polish, for example, “zły” can mean “angry,” “evil,” “bad,” “wrong,” “poor,” and probably some more. There’s nothing unique to English about this. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/27 "2017-03-03T15:50:46Z")
sweat209, how is it that you propose things _should_ be? Should there be a committee that meets and discusses every word in the English language, settles on an official definition, and publishes The One and Only Official English Dictionary? I realize that some languages do have some sort of [regulation committees](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_language_regulators), but does any language have regulations that tight, down to the exact wording of official definitions? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/28 "2017-03-03T15:57:46Z")
[Mathematics](http://mathworld.wolfram.com/EvilNumber.html), perhaps? Maybe not down to the exact wording, but mathematical terms have to be defined clearly enough so that there is no ambiguity about whether the term applies to any particular mathematical object. (Though even in math, the same word can have more than one meaning depending on the context.) ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/29 "2017-03-03T21:34:34Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I got the impression that English is not the OP’s first language. Which makes me wonder what is, and whether that language has “official definitions” for all its words. Not sure, but I think French actually does have a committee of people who decide what words officially mean. And which words are officially French. I seem to recall a kerfuffle a while back when the overlords of French decided that “emaile” is not sufficiently Frenchy, so they came up with some other long, several word phrase everyone was supposed to switch to. > [@sweat209](#): > > So what is the point of the dictionary? What does the dictionary do than? If I understand the dictionary does not tell you what words to use or how to use words but socially the culture the people in group dictate not the dictionary. Biology textbooks don’t tell frogs how to reproduce, either. They’re just explaining to the rest of us how frogs naturally decided to do things on their own. Kinda like dictionaries just tell us how people have naturally decided to use words on their own. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/30 "2017-03-03T22:09:40Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Biology textbooks don’t tell frogs how to reproduce, either. They’re just explaining to the rest of us how frogs naturally decided to do things on their own. Kinda like dictionaries just tell us how people have naturally decided to use words on their own. Yes, thanks to this thread, I have learned of the concept of [_descriptive_ verses _prescriptive_ dictionaries](https://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy-ab&hl=en&site=webhp&source=hp&btnG=Search&q=descriptive+vs+prescriptive+dictionaries). The OP seems to want not only a prescriptive dictionary of English, but that this be the _only_ dictionary of English with the _only_ definition of words. I’m not sure if something like that exists outside of Orwell. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/31 "2017-03-03T23:00:43Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Not sure, but I think French actually does have a committee of people who decide what words officially mean. And which words are officially French. Not really. They have no decision power altogether. They publish a dictionnary, that might be more complete and authoritative than regular ones but that is updated so slowly that it doesn’t keep up with usage. And they can be asked for advice (or give it without being asked), but that isn’t authoritative, either. For instance, during the 90s, the French Academie strongly opposed the feminization of job and position names (saying "LA ministre instead of LE minisgtre for a female, la professeurE, etc…). The government, on the other hand, wanted this change, so it imposed it in the public service and for official documents, and newspapers and such followed suit. Eventually, people got accustomed to read it, and usage changed. The academy position on the matter had exactly zero effect. Basically, one the “Académie” duties is to serve as an advisory body in matters of language. Nothing more than advisory. The academie can come up with “courrier electronique” for e-mail, or “balladeur” for “walkman”. Sometimes the word goes into common language (it partially did in these two examples, both the English and French words being in use), sometimes it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/32 "2017-03-03T23:17:56Z")
And, even so, what’s the French word for evil? It’s “mal,” isn’t it? How many different things does “mal” mean? It could be pain, it could be evil, it could just be a difficulty. To me, the English word for “evil” actually has a tighter range of meanings than in many other languages. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2017, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669/33 "2017-03-04T03:48:45Z")
> [@sweat209](#): > > So what is the point of the dictionary? What does the dictionary do than? If I understand the dictionary does not tell you what words to use or how to use words but socially the culture the people in group dictate not the dictionary. Hmm? I assume you already used a dictionary and know what it’s used for. I’m really not sure what your issue is. The dictionary lists the known uses of a word, which is useful since nobody is familiar with all the uses of all the words. Since we’re talking about “mal”, for instance, even a native French speaker might be puzzled to read that someone suffer from the “haut mal”, and a dictionary will allow him to realize that the character problem isn’t a higher evil, but epilepsy. However, IMO, the main use of a dictionary is to play the “dictionary game” where one player picks a dictionary word, all the others write down a definition for it, and then try to guess what is the actual dictionary definition and who wrote each of the other definitions, and score points accordingly. 😉 > [@](#): > > If there was ever alien contact from other world how would you ever communicate if English language is so loosely that only being culturally emerged where just a misunderstand of a word could cause space war with alien race or major problems. Well…this already happens on Earth. The exact meaning of “occupied territories” in an UN resolution still is of high importance wrt the Palestinian issue. If we were to meet Aliens, we would certainly need to make up a language that is as unambiguous as possible, and we certainly won’t use any natural language. > [@](#): > > Or may be the problem with the word evil was translating it well from other language and thus is why English language is the way it is because under language x the word evil means this word and if we don’t have this word that well mean we cannot understand. I’m not sure what you mean here. That most of the time (if not always) there’s no perfect equivalency between words in two languages? That’s certainly true. Even words refering to very concrete things aren’t fully equivalent when used in a figurative way. Let’s take “tree”, for instance, the first word that crossed my mind. The French translation is “arbre”, most of the time. But checking dictionaries (ah!) I can immediately realize that there’s no “cam tree” in English, and no “arbre à botte” in French, so in these cases, I must use another word for the translation. There are “geneological trees” in both languages but maybe not in Russian or Japanese. And if you’re searching for more abstract words like “evil”, you’re even more likely to run into troubles. And idioms! See [this recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=817983&highlight=ranger) about “ducks in a row”. Then the word might be similar, but with a slightly different nuance. A word might be more negatively connoted in language A than in language B, for instance. There are words that are famously difficult to translate in other languages, too, like for instance the Portuguese “saudade”. Hmmm…your lack of familiarity with the uses of a dictionary and your questions make me wonder : are you an Alien trying to figure out how to communicate with us? Are you evil Aliens? 😕 > [@pulykamell](#): > > And, even so, what’s the French word for evil? It’s “mal,” isn’t it? How many different things does “mal” mean? It could be pain, it could be evil, it could just be a difficulty. To me, the English word for “evil” actually has a tighter range of meanings than in many other languages. I agree. I think that “evil” is much more specific than “mal”. For instance, people have already mentioned that stealing candies isn’t really “evil”, while it can perfectly be “mal”, since “mal” can also simply mean “bad” in French. And the reverse is true : I can’t say that what a serial killer did is simply “mal”, that would sound like the understatement of the century. In fact, “evil” isn’t easy to translate in French because it’s much more absolute than any word we use. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-language-not-define-the-meaning-of-the-word-evil/780669.md?page=1)