# English Monarchy Lost Last Bit of Power When? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 17, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600 "2013-12-17T22:25:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/21 "2013-12-19T03:43:10Z")
Re the Dalton issue. Attlee had selected him as Foreign Secretary, that was blocked by GVIR. He became Chancellor but was dismissed later. On the selection of PMs at the time the Tories did not have a formal mechanism to spect a party leader in that situation. The party elder statesman recommended a name to the Queen and she selected that. The problem was that the Tories had factions sporting different names and no matter how detached EIIR remained, whatever she did she was choosing one faction over the other, an internal party faction was being chosen by the monarch, no matter how much of a majority faction it was. As it is, large parts of the Tory establishment wanted to keep Sir Rab Butler out,but many of the backbench MPs supported him. She choose to follow the establishment. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/22 "2013-12-19T04:20:45Z")
As an aside, what’s with “GVIR” and “EIIR”? I know that it’s taken from the monarch’s monograms (monarchgrams?) but did you just make up this in-text usage? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/23 "2013-12-19T05:29:51Z")
It’s the Royal cipher used on post boxes, primarily, but also in some other situations, like on the uniforms of the Beefeaters. GVIR is the cipher for “George VI” and EIIR is the cipher for Elizabeth II. (The “R” stands for “Rex” in the case of a king, and “Regina” in the case of a queen.) ETA: here’s a [Google Image](http://www.google.ca/#q=royal+cipher+post+box+images) search for some examples. ETA2: here’s the wiki article on [Royal Cyphers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_cypher). ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/24 "2013-12-20T20:33:04Z")
It is nevertheless unusual to use that format in general discourse, isn’t it? It’s decipherable in context, but out of context I don’t think I would recognise “EIIR”. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/25 "2013-12-20T21:48:37Z")
> [@Ximenean](#): > > It is nevertheless unusual to use that format in general discourse, isn’t it? It’s decipherable in context, but out of context I don’t think I would recognise “EIIR”. Agreed. Normally we’d use George VI or QE2 or Brenda or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/26 "2013-12-20T22:11:05Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Agreed. Normally we’d use George VI or QE2 or Brenda or similar. Prince William should so name his second child “Brenda”, especially if it’s a girl. It would be a lovely nod to his less loyal future subjects. Not that we’re actually “subjects” any more, if I remember rightly. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/27 "2013-12-21T05:45:41Z")
I’ve learned an amazing amount from the responses, thanks everyone! I’m a voracious reader of biographies (authorized and otherwise) and their wealth and history make them intriguing to me, for now, especially through my very American lens. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/28 "2013-12-21T12:04:11Z")
The Queen’s representative in Canada was asked by the prime minister to adjourn (the odd word they use is “prorogue”) parliament on the eve of what would probably have been a lost vote of non-confidence (it was a minority government). Many pols and political commentators thought that he could have refused, which would have been a real exercise of power. But he didn’t. (At one time I knew him moderately well and he is a class 1 a-hole.) Apparently some time in the 1920s, the Governor General did veto an act of parliament (by refusing to proclaim it) and there was rioting in the streets. Perhaps the Queen could still refuse to adjourn parliament. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/29 "2013-12-21T12:47:03Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Surely the last truly significant _exercise_ of royal power was when George V (at his Prime Minister’s instigation) threatened to pack the House of Lords with Liberal peers if they attempted to overrule Commons by failing to pass Lloyd-Geroge’s budget and the Parliament Act that limited the Lords’ powers. > > In this case, of course, the King acted in support of further democratization of the British Constitution, and in support of the democratically elected government of the day. My understanding is that George was forced by the Commons to issue the threat to pack the House of Lords, and that he was against the Parliament Act. So I don’t think that was a good example of a Monarch wielding power, rather the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/30 "2013-12-21T14:06:20Z")
Just as William IV was forced by the loathsome Earl Grey to threaten to pack the House of Lords with new peers — he didn’t want to, not because he opposed the Reform bill, but as he didn’t want to have lots more peers hanging about — so the Grey Administration dropped, the Wellingtonian party couldn’t form a government; William recalled Grey and obeyed his instruction to threaten to make more liberal peers, after which the 2nd House folded without the necessity to actually follow through. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/31 "2013-12-21T14:11:49Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > My understanding is that George was forced by the Commons to issue the threat to pack the House of Lords, and that he was against the Parliament Act. So I don’t think that was a good example of a Monarch wielding power, rather the opposite. The People’s Budget not the Parliament Act 1911 (which was subsequent and consequent to it). Basically when the budget was rejected, GVR ( I like it, I will bloody well use it :D) had two choices. Either accept dissolution and threaten to flood the Lords with peers or accept the governments resignation. His own staff was divided on this issue. He eventually chose the former, although he later felt that he had been ill advised as to the supposed lack of ability of the opposition to form a government and he might have chosen differently. Moreover, in the 1920’s during the General strike, he quite openly opposed many of his own governments positions and was a moderating influence. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/32 "2013-12-21T14:14:06Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > the loathsome Earl Grey He made a good cuppa though. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/33 "2013-12-21T14:36:46Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > The People’s Budget not the Parliament Act 1911 (which was subsequent and consequent to it). Basically when the budget was rejected, GVR ( I like it, I will bloody well use it :D) had two choices. Either accept dissolution and threaten to flood the Lords with peers or accept the governments resignation. His own staff was divided on this issue. He eventually chose the former, although he later felt that he had been ill advised as to the supposed lack of ability of the opposition to form a government and he might have chosen differently. I guess, but he still got forced by the Commons into following their “advice”, so I don’t think it counts as an exercise of royal power. That he really wanted to go the other way and wished he had accentuates the point. > [@](#): > > Moreover, in the 1920’s during the General strike, he quite openly opposed many of his own governments positions and was a moderating influence. Did he use any royal powers to do it? Does anyone have a post 1900 example of the use of royal power by a British Monarch? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600/34 "2013-12-21T14:54:37Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > The Queen’s representative in Canada was asked by the prime minister to adjourn (the odd word they use is “prorogue”) parliament on the eve of what would probably have been a lost vote of non-confidence (it was a minority government). that’s because prorogation is different from adjourn. Only the Crown can call Parliament into session, and only the Crown can end a session of Parliament. The term for the Crown’s power to end a session is “prorogation.” When Parliament is in session, each House can adjourn its sittings from day to day or for a longer time, such as for summer holidays, but that is done by majority vote of each House. It doesn’t end the session. > [@](#): > > Many pols and political commentators thought that he could have refused, which would have been a real exercise of power. But he didn’t. (At one time I knew him moderately well and he is a class 1 a-hole.) . She, not he. It was the previous GovGen, Micheale Jean, who had to make the decision, not the current GovGen. > [@](#): > > Apparently some time in the 1920s, the Governor General did veto an act of parliament (by refusing to proclaim it) and there was rioting in the streets. No. I think you’re thinking of the King-Byng Fling. In 1925-26, PM King had a minority government. He was facing a vote of censure in the Commons over a sweatshop scandal and asked the GovGen, Lord Byng, to dissolve Parliament and call an election. Byng refused, because the political situation wax very fluid with several parties in the Commons. He thought the second largest party should be given an opportunity to form a government, and called on the Leader of the Opposition, Arthur Meighen. He formed a government, but it quickly fell. Meighen them asked for a dissolution, which the GovGen granted. King ran on a platform that the GovGen improperly exercised his powers. King was returned to office. Feelings certainly ran high, but I don’t recall any rioting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-monarchy-lost-last-bit-of-power-when/676600.md?page=1)