# English-only in the US: Unconstitutional? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 26, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279 "2003-04-26T06:01:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/1 "2003-04-26T06:01:03Z")
I just finished my semester here at WMU, and I had the pleasure of taking an English class that focused on linguistics and education. The title of the course was American Dialects, if anyone were wondering (I know, you’re not). Anyways, I learned a bit about the English-only movement, especially in California. I know that Prop. 227, passed out there, but is it constitutional or ethical? It seems that by only teaching public-school courses in English is a violation of the civil rights of students who do not primarily speak English. I have a little experience from the student perspective of this argument. I took Spanish here, and my instructor the second course in the series spoke no English. I found it to be extremely frustrating and ended up dropping the class. I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be for a high-schooler with little experience in Standard American English (SAE) to be forced to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/2 "2003-04-26T06:11:22Z")
Well, from what I remember of the proposition in question, you’ve mis-stated what it was. The idea was that the bilingual education courses were supposed to be forced into being what they were originally designed to be: courses taught in the child’s language with the goal of preparing said child to move into classes conducted in English. What Bilingual Education has amounted to in California is essentially Spanish-only education for a large number of the state’s children & extra income for the bilingual education teachers. Mind you, all of what I just typed is what I remember from the election with that proposition. p.s. SAE treats “anyone” as a singular noun; thus, “anyone was.” ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/3 "2003-04-26T06:13:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wmulax93 \* I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be for a high-schooler with little experience in Standard American English (SAE) to be forced to use it. But they are not forced! All they have to do is go to a country where the standard language is the one they speak, and they can speak that and completely ignore English. But if they prefer to remain here, then they should plan to learn the language commonly spoken here: English. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/4 "2003-04-26T06:15:54Z")
Hmm, I’ll have to research this a little more now that the semester is over. As for the was/were: as I said, the semester is over. My brain has been shut down 😉 Thanks for the insight into 227 though, the way it was explained in my class was a bit different, but by a student. She may have been misinformed during her research. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/5 "2003-04-26T06:20:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by [t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) \* > \*\*But they are not forced! All they have to do is go to a country where the standard language is the one they speak, and they can speak that and completely ignore English. > > But if they prefer to remain here, then they should plan to learn the language commonly spoken here: English. \*\* Here is my problem with your argument: English is not predominantly spoken in every single part of this country. It is also not the “official” language of the United States. Parts of California are predominantly Spanish speaking. Other parts speak primarily Vietnamese or Chinese. Here in Michigan (where we have no such law), the area around Holland is made up of a large percentage of Spanish speakers. Arabic is common in Dearborn. Your language may be common to the most people in this country, but not in _every part_ of this country. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/6 "2003-04-26T06:35:15Z")
wm: As someone who actually speaks Vietnamese, I’m incredibly interested in which parts of this country are predominately Vietnamese-speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/7 "2003-04-26T06:37:18Z")
Drat. Left out the question: wm: Care to share that info? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/8 "2003-04-26T06:39:33Z")
wmulax: Well, your argument of English not being predominant is like saying it’s not predominant in my grandmother’s house. Big deal. In the country as a whole, English is predominant. Prop 227 was meant to limit (not eliminate) the amount of bilingual education, and to mainstream the children more quickly. In the old system, it could go almost indefinitely. [Click here to read the actual proposition](http://primary98.ss.ca.gov/VoterGuide/Propositions/227.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/9 "2003-04-26T06:57:43Z")
I don’t see it really being unconstitutional. I’m sure a lawyer could make out an argument that if favors the English language and thus denies Equal Protection, but I’m sure even if that argument was raised the Court might say it was rational. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/10 "2003-04-26T08:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by [t-bonham@scc.net](mailto:t-bonham@scc.net) \* > But if they prefer to remain here, then they should plan to learn the language commonly spoken here: English. ou are quite wrong. Many peoples were speaking other languages long before their terrotiries were part of the USA. Why should tyhey be forced to change their language and culture? I would change it around and say that if the USA does not like those people exercising their language and culture then it should give them independence to do as they please. Why is it that the USA can only have one language? ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/11 "2003-04-26T12:15:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wmulax93 \* > **The title of the course was American Dialects, if anyone were wondering (I know, you’re not).** > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*p.s. SAE treats “anyone” as a singular noun; thus, “anyone was.” \*\* The relevant issue here is not the verb’s number but rather its mood. _If_ is a subordinating conjunction, which introduces a subordinate clause in which the verb belongs in the subjunctive mood. The subjunctive form here is _were_, even in the singular–thus “if anyone were wondering,” as **wmulax93** wrote. This rule has been relaxed for about a century, however, so that the verb in a subordinate clause can also use the indicative mood. Thus “if anyone was wondering” is also correct. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/12 "2003-04-26T12:24:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wmulax93 \* > \*\* I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be for a high-schooler with little experience in Standard American English (SAE) to be forced to use it. \*\* My father came to this country in 1920, when he was ten years old. with four older siblings. They all learned English rapidly and graduated from high school. All of them were able to live within the main stream American society. However, his mother didn’t learn English. She spent the rest of her life trapped within the community of people who spoke her language. The fact is, young people can learn languages quickly when they’re immersed in them. The schools should take advantage of this talent by having English-only classes, supplemented by special English classes for non-English speakers. That’s what works best. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/13 "2003-04-26T12:35:00Z")
_sigh_ This one is almost as pointless to get into as gun control and roe v. wade. For what it’s worth, there is no mention of language in the Constitution. And if someone is going to claim that it’s a violation of their civil rights to have to learn English, especially if they are immigrants, I am going to scream to high heaven that it’s a violation of my civil rights to use my tax dollars to create duplicates of every legal form in the state (and country) in Outer Mongolian. This pandering to non-English speakers is a waste of money, and only happens because some feel-good group has decided they need a justification for their cause. My ancestors came here in the 1880’s, and learned English. My other ancestors were here long before them, and when Choctaw faded out, they learned English. Why the 15,000 Russian and Ukranian immigrants in my neighborhood can’t do the same, I don’t know. I know that it’s a pain in the ass, and a safety hazard, to have people driving cars and such who speak no English. ---
**Author:** ![Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@Dreaming\_of\_Maria\_Callas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dreaming_of_Maria_Callas)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/14 "2003-04-26T12:47:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tristan \* > \*\*Why the 15,000 Russian and Ukranian immigrants in my neighborhood can’t do the same, I don’t know. I know that it’s a pain in the ass, and a safety hazard, to have people driving cars and such who speak no English. \*\* 😕 WTF??? Hey, **Tristan** , anytime you want, you can get an international driving permit and rent a car in just about any country you can think of. Americans are permitted to rent cars in England, a country where they drive entirely on the opposite side of the road, for pete’s sake. If tourists are permitted to drive around sightseeing in foreign countries - where they probably have only passing familiarity with the country’s traffic signs - I don’t understand how you can consider people who live here to be a safety hazard. And what in the world does driving have to do with language anyway? The word “Stop” and the red octogon are essentially universally understood. In fact, most American traffic signs can be easily understood to people who don’t speak English. UnuMondo ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/15 "2003-04-26T14:02:22Z")
Several years ago, I was riding a bike on the side of the road, and a Russian woman pulled out in front of me. She hit me. Fortunatly, she wasn’t going very fast. I was knocked off my bike, rolled and came up fine. My bike was a little banged up (and I needed a new rim) but it wasn’t too bad. I approched the car, and tried to ask the woman if she was ok, and figure out what had happened. She either didn’t speak a lick of English, or faked it. As I’m limping up, she smiles and shrugs her shoulders, then takes off. It’s happened to more than just myself as well. I’ve gotten yelled at in Russian because I wouldn’t give a kid any change, and told him that I didn’t understand what he was saying… and that maybe he’d have better luck if he was speaking English. I’m all for immigration. But if I were going to visit a country for an extended amount of time, I would at least learn the basics of the language. I would hope that anyone that was coming her to live, forever, would learn the dominant language of the area. And at least here in Sacramento, that would be English. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/16 "2003-04-26T14:15:49Z")
As to the OP, I doubt there is anything in the (federal) constitution that would allow the gov’t to set up English as the official language, other than for federal gov’t purposes. If a state were to decide to have 2 official languages, I think that should be covered by the 10th ammendment: **The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.** I believe that quite a few states have passed English as the official language bills, but I’m not sure that really does anything. IIRC, California is one of those states and I still get multilingual ballots, which you’d think would be an obvious target for English only, if English were indeed the official language. Maybe someone more knowledgeable on the issue of states with official language laws can chime in on that. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/17 "2003-04-26T15:30:51Z")
**Monty** , the Vietnamese example was given by my professor in class and I took it at face value. I guessed that it would be near San Francisco. I’ve never actually been to California, so I have no idea personally. **John Mace** , I actually saw this as a 1st amendment issue, and here is why: Under the first amendment, the government can make no law prohibiting free speech. Under Prop 227 (under my admittedly misinformed idea of it) a federally funded entity (a public school) is forcing people to speak in a different manner than is normal to them. This may be a stretch, but I see it as a violation in the same manner that a judge can no longer post the Ten Commandments in the courtroom. **Tristan** and **december** , I’ll never convince either of you that you may be wrong, but here goes anyways. While it may seem silly that immigrants don’t learn English, they have no responsibility to do so. Some of these people will rarely leave their (language of choice)-speaking communities, and have little use for English. Others feel it is insulting to their culture and heritage to be forced to learn English. There are many examples of Americans going to oreign countries and getting angry when people don’t speak English. No I don’t have a cite, just stories I’ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/18 "2003-04-26T15:33:58Z")
Yes, states can have single or multiple official languages, either by State Constitution or statute. What they do with that is another story. Since the US Constitution is silent on the specific matter of official languages, any challenge to language legislation would have to be based on the intent and effect of its implementation: whether it’s denying any citizens equal protection under the law, or imposing an unreasonable burden, or is a thinly-veiled way of “profiling” a segment of the population or imposing assimilation into a specific form of anglophone identity. Your state can design language legislation that avoids constitutional pitfalls and prevail, or attemtp to just say “all yew dang furriners better talk 'Merican or else move ta France” and get nailed by a Federal Court. One thing that is often overlooked is that in and of itself, having English be the sole language of official public activities, documents and transactions (that’s really all we can do: it’s absurd to legislate the common-use language of _society_) need not result in an elimination of accommodation for immigrant groups… for instance, translation for a trial defendant. But conversely, a state could cut back quite a bit on bilingual education (as in, limit it to the transitional) and multi-language government forms without an officialization of English. Any program that was established as a _ **policy** _ decision can be reversed or changed by a later policy decision. Now, many proponents of E-Only **do** seem to want the officialization of English just so they can actually _forbid_ the use of multilingual forms and bilingual education _at all_. IMO those give the impression that yes, they DO have an unspoken agenda not just of fluent use of English, but of outright cultural assimilation. I have no idea what they would do with private businesses such as Telemundo or institutions such as Korean Churches, who would continue to sustain and encourage distinct cultural identities. OTOH, there are some on the opposite extreme who somehow have come to the conclusion that nobody needs to really integrate (not assimilate) into society at large, become fluent in the common language or even acquire some basic consciousness of the common national values and mores, and that the government should just provide you the way to live your life w/o hard choices – and that’s just another recipe for marginalization. Fortunately, the second- and third- generation descendants usually end up quite integrated, very often in spite of any deliberate program from either side. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/19 "2003-04-26T15:41:51Z")
Wouldn’t a state law mandating that only English be used in schools violate Myers v. Nebraska, which seems to say that you can’t mandate that in private schools, at least? > [@](#): > > That the State may do much, go very far, indeed, in order to improve the quality of its citizens, physically, mentally and morally, is clear; but the individual has certain fundamental rights which must be respected. The protection of the Constitution extends to all, to those who speak other languages as well as to those born with English on the tongue. Perhaps it would be highly > advantageous if all had ready understanding of our ordinary speech, but this cannot be coerced by methods which conflict with the Constitution – a desirable end cannot be promoted by > prohibited means. Bartels v. Iowa says pretty much the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Priam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/77aa72/32.png) [@Priam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Priam)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2003, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279/20 "2003-04-26T15:46:05Z")
**wmulax93** , everyone has the right to learn or not learn whatever language they like. This does not necessarily mean such desires should mould what the rest of society does. You don’t want to learn English? Okay fine. I’m certainly not planning to force you. However, just because you feel its an affront to learn the trading language (when I say trading language, I mean when a Vietnamese immigrant wants to trade with a Russian immigrant, they’re much more likely to have English in common than one or the other’s native dialect) of the United States does not mean I should be forced into paying for your paperwork in Uzbekistani. Find a translator who owes you a favor or something… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-only-in-the-us-unconstitutional/171279.md?page=2)