# English Premier League and Football in General - 05/06 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 5, 2005, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779 "2005-08-05T20:41:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/21 "2005-08-09T21:43:48Z")
> [@eponymous](#): > > **Villareal 2 - Everton 1** > > Caught the last 15 minutes on Internet feed from BBC - disappointed to say the least. Everton will have to play their best at Villareal for any chance to go on to group play. Yeah, it was disappointing. We played OK but didn’t have enough, two goals down in the first leg will be the proverbial mountain to climb in the away fixture. Beattie scoring was one positive thing. He’s a confidence player so hopefully can get things moving up front from this game. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/22 "2005-08-09T21:52:43Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > **Garius** - did you find a local in Manhattan to watch your side yet? > > I kind of miss having **Owl** around to bash the Yanks. Maybe I can buy him a guest pass? Fulham looked pants against the MLS all-stars with one or two practices, so I don’t like their chances of staying up. I wouldn’t read too much into that, MLSers were in mid-season form and it was the best of the best. Fulham were still two weeks away from their opener. Having said that, I do expect Fulham to stay up, but they will be toying with the dropzone pretty much all season. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/23 "2005-08-09T22:02:58Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > I wouldn’t read too much into that, MLSers were in mid-season form and it was the best of the best. Fulham were still two weeks away from their opener. Having said that, I do expect Fulham to stay up, but they will be toying with the dropzone pretty much all season. It was more or less the US National B team plus a couple of pretty decent foreigners (Shalrie Joseph and Ronnie O’Brien). I understand that MLS should have been in better shape, and I also hear that Fulham didn’t handle the summer heat well, but they’d been playing together for a while and the MLS guys had one, two practices together, tops. All other things being fairly equal cohesiveness should win out, but in that game it looked like MLS had spent a few weeks together and Fulham had just met one another. I’ll have to go back and look at the MLS roster and see how many of those guys were on the Gold Cup squad. I know that Twellman and Cunningham weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/24 "2005-08-09T22:51:20Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > … > > **Vetch** , Moyes actually won the manager of the season award last year (the league managers association one that is voted on by all prem managers). I’m going to have to concede that award- I must have been thinking about one of the other dozen "manager of the year " awards that were up for grabs. Although I didn’t have Fulham as one of my candidates for relegation this year they did play a friendly with my team and managed 🙂 to get a draw, considering they are 2 divisions above us, and seeing their other pre season results, I reckon they’ll be lucky to escape going down this year. Watching the Manchester United game against Debrecen in the Champions League this evening I can’t see them troubling Chelsea in the Premiership. They’ll be lucky to hold on the third spot this year. And kudos to my own team, another win tonight, so we’re up to third in league 1. ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/25 "2005-08-10T03:40:02Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > Yeah, it was disappointing. We played OK but didn’t have enough, two goals down in the first leg will be the proverbial mountain to climb in the away fixture. Beattie scoring was one positive thing. He’s a confidence player so hopefully can get things moving up front from this game. I read that Koldrup didn’t play - wonder why? Also, I’d be curious to know some of the differences between Spanish and English style footballing (I know that EPL is more physical, which I thought Everton could use to its advantage; heard that CL refs aren’t as likely to let them play rough, though). I know Riquelme is the key to Villareal’s offense - wonder what adjustments Moyes will make for the second leg. They’ll definitely need to take more chances offensively - perhaps Beattie and Bent up front? Maybe something that Villareal wouldn’t expect? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/26 "2005-08-10T09:50:37Z")
If Everton don’t get through to the group stages, do the other 4 English teams get their CL money? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/27 "2005-08-10T10:32:43Z")
There’s been a lot of balanced + shrewd analysis in this thread. Well done, chaps! I think Chelsea are going to win the league comfortably. The TV documentary on Mourinho explained why he’s so successful, and with the conveyor belt of new signings (will they get Essien?) giving them squad depth to cope with injuries and fixture congestion, I don’t see any other choice. (Arsene Wenger may claim Chelsea pay too much for players, but I bet he’d like to have that problem!) As a long-term Spurs supporter (in my first season they did the Double! :eek: ), I have become inured to the disappointments Myler Keogh mentions. I do think that Jol is a fine manager, but I think he’ll miss Frank Arnesen. Now Frank left for loads of money to … err … no don’t tell me … I’ll think of it soon… I think that Souness is far too aggressive a manager. Isn’t Alan Shearer being lined up as a Newcastle replacement? ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 10:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/28 "2005-08-10T10:50:38Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > I read in today’s paper that the path has been smoothed for Michael Owen to return to Liverpool. Like a craven cur slinking back to its master, the sharp-shooter with the character of a timid estate agent looks set on a return to the tin mine. In truth it will be a good move for LFC if they can pull it off, they’ve done nothing substantial in the summer that suggests they could make a dent in the thirty-odd points Chelsea piled on them last season. I couldn’t disagree with this more (well, I still think Chelsea’ll win, but I disagree with the rest :)). I think when we had Owen we got suckered into a wasteful long-ball “give it to Owen and hope something happens” kind of game that I don’t want to see us fall back into. Also, he’d end up as the de facto first choice without having to really compete for a place, when I think that the competition between several strikers is one of the promising things we have going for us this season. Moreover, I just don’t think Benitez wants him either. I’d be extremely surprised if he came back. Over the summer we’ve brought in Crouch, who I have some doubts about but deserves at least a chance; we effectively have Cisse back from the dead, who I think is going to be outstanding, and with Zenden on the wing feeding the two of them I think we’ve got some pretty interesting forward options (but oh, for a decent right winger). Morientes has been a large disappointment thus far, but then he didn’t really get much service for his style of play last season, and hopefully he’ll link up with Zenden as well as Crouch. Now we just need to buy Andrade and I’ll be a happy man. ---
**Author:** ![GraceTX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c4cdca/32.png) [@GraceTX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GraceTX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/29 "2005-08-10T10:55:22Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > 1. Chelsea > 2. Arsenal > 3. Liverpool > 4. ManU > 5. Tottenham > 6. Newcastle > 7. Villa > 8. Middlesborough > 9. Bolton > 10. Man City > 11. Charlton > 12. Everton > 13. Pompey > 14. Birmingham City > 15. WBA > 16. Fulham > 17. Sunderland > 18. Blackburn > 19. West Ham > 20. Wigan Switch Blackburn and Portsmouth and I think you probably have it about right. In Nelsen, Todd, Neill and Mokoena, Blackburn have one of the best non-top-5-teams defences in the league, and actually have attacking options this year. Portsmouth, OTOH, sold off their best players and haven’t really brought anyone in to replace them. They’re definitely going to struggle this year. > [@glee](#): > > I do think that Jol is a fine manager, but I think he’ll miss Frank Arnesen. Jol could finally be the manager that takes Tottenham back to roughly where their fans think they belong. Davids may not exactly be the player he was anymore, but in terms of the leadership he’ll bring to all the kiddies (or “emerging talent” if you prefer) you have there, he could prove to be the signing of the season. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/30 "2005-08-10T11:49:37Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > I couldn’t disagree with this more (well, I still think Chelsea’ll win, but I disagree with the rest :)). I think when we had Owen we got suckered into a wasteful long-ball “give it to Owen and hope something happens” kind of game that I don’t want to see us fall back into. Also, he’d end up as the de facto first choice without having to really compete for a place, when I think that the competition between several strikers is one of the promising things we have going for us this season. Moreover, I just don’t think Benitez wants him either. I’d be extremely surprised if he came back… You may well be right about Owen unbalancing the Reds in his final seasons, but the bottom line is that Michael Owen is a world-class player with a tremendous pedigree in the EPL. These other names you’re talking about just aren’t in the same league. Peter Crouch and Bolo Zenden are above-average premiership players, Morientes, his excellent LaLiga record notwithstanding, is an average prem player and Cisse is an unknown quantity. He may have an outstanding season, he may also be complete garbage. Either way the point may well be academic as I agree that Benitez doesn’t appear to fancy Owen all that much, so talk of a return is probably just rumour and gossip. ---
**Author:** ![mamboman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@mamboman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mamboman)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/31 "2005-08-10T12:00:11Z")
[QUOTE=Myler Keogh] Going on the one percent chance that you’re being serious here, you’re either a)ignorant of all matters Blue, or b) an old time Blue who grew up with the school of science teams of the sixties. Nothing is good enough for these folk. My old man comes out with some of these comments from time to time. If you’ve been reared on Alec Young and Kendall-Harvey-Ball then you’ve got the bar set pretty high. [QUOTE] And why should it not be? _Nil Satis, Nisi Optimum_, sir! 🙂 That actually means something to Everton folk, you know. Moyes is a jumped up first division manager who has us playing like a jumped up first division side. Remember Ipswich Town a few years back? I still say the sooner we’re shy of him the better. mm ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/32 "2005-08-10T13:35:36Z")
**mamboman** , even one who feels such schadenfreude at Toffee misery as myself can see that the bog-eyed ginger sweaty you impugn could barely have done _more_ last season with such a bunch of dilettantes than beat Liverpool into fourth place. If you still consider Everton to be a Massive Club then you must have been asleep since the late eighties. Christ, you were down for _relegation_ last year given the dwindling crowds at the Cow Shed (a legacy of their notoriously faint-hearted and disloyal character)! If you want to support a club which plays proper European-style football, ask the Villareal team to swap shirts _before_ the match. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/33 "2005-08-10T13:42:59Z")
On the Liverpool striker issue, I must admit I was surprised to see Crouch sign and second place is the best we can hope for this season. But Rafa did amazing things at Valencia with as big a galoot as Carew in his system, and Sissoko clearly has good sense if nothing else. Benitez will get all the patience and loyalty he deserves after The Greatest Football Match Of All Time[sup]TM[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/34 "2005-08-10T15:02:41Z")
ACtuallly the perfect place for Mickey Owen is Arsenal, but that won’t happen. Owen would be a perfect compliment to Henry with his speed and his ability to finish. The Gooners seem to me to be pretty thin on the front line, aafter Henry who do they have. Reyes? Better as a midfielde. Bergkamp? Getting on. Van Persie? Possibly, yes, but that isn’t much to go on. Look at Arsenal in the FA Cup without Henry, the chances were minimal. BTW, is anybody up for an SDMB Fantasy Footie League? ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/35 "2005-08-10T15:24:10Z")
I did one the season before last, **GO** - the free BBC one which runs no longer. These things rather peter out a bit - I think I was the only one taking any notice by the end, but feel free to try. ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/36 "2005-08-10T19:17:47Z")
Here’s Mark Lawrensen’s [predictions](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/4718395.stm) for the Premiership. 1. Chelsea 2. Arsenal 3. Man U 4. Liverpool 5. Spurs 6. Middlesborough 7. Man C 8. Newcastle 9. Everton 10. Bolton 11. Birmingham 12. Aston Villa 13. Charlton 14. Blackburn 15. Portsmouth 16. West Brom 17. Fulham 18. Wigan 19. West Ham 20. Sunderland Interesting that he has the 3 teams that came up going down, and the Championship champions bottom. ---
**Author:** ![bluecanary](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bluecanary/32/3614_2.png) [@bluecanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bluecanary)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/37 "2005-08-10T21:09:21Z")
Looks realistic, though (as a Newcastle fan) unrealistically optimistic. Swap Newcastle and Villa is probably more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/38 "2005-08-11T09:13:18Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > **mamboman** , even one who feels such schadenfreude at Toffee misery as myself can see that the bog-eyed ginger sweaty you impugn could barely have done _more_ last season with such a bunch of dilettantes than beat Liverpool into fourth place. If you still consider Everton to be a Massive Club then you must have been asleep since the late eighties. Christ, you were down for _relegation_ last year given the dwindling crowds at the Cow Shed (a legacy of their notoriously faint-hearted and disloyal character)! Yes, Moyes did incredibly well. ‘Silk purse from sow’s ear’ comes to mind. > [@SentientMeat](#): > > If you want to support a club which plays proper European-style football, ask the Villareal team to swap shirts _before_ the match. Now that’s funny! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![rayh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@rayh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rayh)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/39 "2005-08-11T15:42:21Z")
Predictions for the weekend :- Saturday Villa v. Bolton - Villa may prove too strong for Bolton at home, 1-0 Everton v. Man U - Interesting one this, can the Toffees keep up the work of last season, can Man U improve? 1-1 Fulham v. Birmingham - could be a close one - 0-1 Man C v. West Brom - City could be good one week and dire the next last season, some consistancy and they might do well, 2-0 Middlesborough v. Liverpool - Pool lost this game 2-0 last season, but Cisse, Morientes and Gerrard seem to be scoring for fun at the moment, 0-2 Portsmouth v. Spurs - Can spurs play their weight this season? 0-1 Sunderland v. Charlton - the newcomers v the not so newcomers, Charltons experience may be the deciding factor, 0-1 West Ham v. Blackburn - another close one, 1-1 Sunday Aresenal v. Newcastle - Aresenal at home, Newcastle with problems, 2-0 Wigan v. Chelsea - What a game to start you campaign in the permiership with, 0-3 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779/40 "2005-08-11T22:28:15Z")
Poor Wigan :(. What a way to start your attempt to stay up in the Premiership! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general-05-06/315779.md?page=3)