# English Premier League and Football in General **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867 "2005-02-01T22:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/381 "2005-03-14T15:32:02Z")
Fa Cup draw: Geordies v Surrey United Plumstead v Blackburn So a AFC v MUFC final is very much a possibility - which will make a 7th place finish good enough for Europe. **Roger** You live in the orient - what’s South Korea like for a holiday? Spurs are playing there in the summer and me and the chaps are mulling over going there. All I know about the place is that they make crap cars and eat dogs. Is that about it? The other teams are: Participants: PSV (Eindhoven) Olympique Lyon Tottenham Hotspur (London) Real Sociedad (San Sebastián) Boca Juniors (Buenos Aires) Once Caldas (Manizales) Mamelodi Sundowns Seongnam Ilhwa Chunma ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/382 "2005-03-14T16:37:26Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Fa Cup draw: > > Geordies v Surrey United > > Plumstead v Blackburn > > So a AFC v MUFC final is very much a possibility - which will make a 7th place finish good enough for Europe. I guess I’ll have to pull for the magpies, but I don’t really see Blackburn beating AFC. Just not enough offense. As for South Korea, I was there for WC04 and didn’t think that much of it; it was okay for a WC, when there’s lots of partying and such going on, but I don’t know that I’d want to spend a lot of time there in the summer. Maybe if you tag it onto a trip someplace else. There’s a place in Pattaya that would be about right for you. As to USA v England, I agree that SGE will not really let this be a true contest, so most conclusions drawn from it are likely to be false. However I do want to see who’s involved before totally writing it off. I imagine that Arena will use it as a tune up and side selection prior to the June 4 & 8 qualifiers, so I don’t expect to see USA’s strongest side, either. Probably somehwhere between the full side and the team that stomped Colombia last week, which was mostly very young and all MLS players. ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/383 "2005-03-14T17:42:27Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I guess I’ll have to pull for the magpies, but I don’t really see Blackburn beating AFC. Just not enough offense. Agreed. Our only hope is to do what Leicester tried to do with us - frustrate them in defence and hit them on a good counter-attack, or take it to penalties of course. Won’t happen, but I can dream. At least we didn’t draw Scum U. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/384 "2005-03-14T17:46:32Z")
> [@garius](#): > > **Owl’s** right. > > The simple facts are: > 4) The USA will win (cf. Australia) and the majority of merkins who take an interest in it will see it as a great victory (because they won’t know the England team well enough to know that its a third string side). I thought you didn’t want to be patronizing? You’re mostly wrong with #4. We’re well aware that friendlies don’t mean much, if anything. It’s just a quality game to help us prepare for WC qualification. Winning would be nice, but it wouldn’t make any headlines. > [@garius](#): > > 1. We won’t care. As we’ll know it was just another Sven Sub-A-Thon. We won’t care much either. Really. Except maybe to tease the more arrogant English fans (of which there seem to be legions…which is amusing since they never actually win anything). > [@garius](#): > > Now the day that we play each other in a World Cup Game is the day that we can really argue about who’s better Even if the U.S. were to beat England in '06, I’d have a hard time claiming that the U.S. is better. But that will change eventually :p. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/385 "2005-03-14T17:49:15Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > Probably somehwhere between the full side and the team that stomped Colombia last week, which was mostly very young and all MLS players. I was at that game…and boy was Colombia dreadful. Nice to se our young guys play well. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/386 "2005-03-14T18:31:22Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > However if you think that the USA would get a result out of any of the top 8 teams in the world (as measured by people who watch football - not them bloody silly rankings) I have a very nice bridge I would like to sell you. Do you consider Germany a top 8 team? The US were the better team on the pitch in 2002 against them and were unfortunetly unlucky with the goal scoring. I wonder why England fans think the US is really as good as China when the truth is closer to the US being as good as Mexico. > [@Yookeroo](#): > > We won’t care much either. Really. Except maybe to tease the more arrogant English fans Yep… that would be lovely. It seems fans of other countries are more accepting of US team success than the English are. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/387 "2005-03-14T18:48:14Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > I was at that game…and boy was Colombia dreadful. Nice to se our young guys play well. So you were one of about 7-8,000 to see it. Good on you. I wonder what the Colombian press reaction was. Have any idea? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/388 "2005-03-14T18:52:22Z")
I think most Americans would agree that England is the better side and would win 7 out of 10 times with each side fielding their best teams. Who knows what Sven will do? The reason they are coming to the US is exposure of the game, so there may be some pressure to start a girst rate squad, although I doubt. The truth is that England probably should have superior talent at every postion except goalkeeper. But the US is not a talentless bunch. One thing the US seems to be able to do under Arena is play well in these matches even though the players have not been together much prior. I thiik it would be great if England and the US end up in the same group at WC06. What fun that would be. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/389 "2005-03-14T19:02:15Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Fa Cup draw: > > Geordies v Surrey United > > Plumstead v Blackburn > > So a AFC v MUFC final is very much a possibility - which will make a 7th place finish good enough for Europe. Plumstead = Arsenal? Do you think you could get over the fact that Arsenal moved up to north London? I mean, it happened in 1913, so you’ve had plenty of time to get over it. What the hell do you care anyway? Okay, I’m just putzing with you a bit. Since I’m not a Tottenham or Highbury local, much less a Brit, I’m sure I don’t get the whole picture. Though I understand we remain a thorn in your arses, seeing as we got Sol and also swooped God out form your noses back in '95. What’s that I hear? Well, it’s certainly not the sound of silver from your end of the Seven Sisters Road. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/390 "2005-03-14T19:05:57Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > Plumstead = Arsenal? > > Do you think you could get over the fact that Arsenal moved up to north London? I mean, it happened in 1913, so you’ve had plenty of time to get over it. What the hell do you care anyway? LOL! Though I’m hoping beyond hope that the Magpies can knock off the damned MUFC. We are playing our best football and if we’d done this since the beginning of the season, we’d be in the Top 4, surely. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/391 "2005-03-14T20:14:07Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > LOL! > Though I’m hoping beyond hope that the Magpies can knock off the damned MUFC. We are playing our best football and if we’d done this since the beginning of the season, we’d be in the Top 4, surely. Well, I don’t know about that (I’m assuming you’re Sp\*rs), but a couple early results against Norwich and Portsmouth would’ve put you currently in 5th, which is European football at this point. Not that I’m wishing you any luck. ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/392 "2005-03-14T23:47:51Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I wonder why England fans think the US is really as good as China when the truth is closer to the US being as good as Mexico. [Montoya]I do not think that team are as good as you think they are.[/Montoya] Truth be told, I think the US are a lot better than **owl** gives them credit for - I certainly don’t think they’d have any problems qualifying from England’s current group beyond, possibly, away to Poland, were you to switch their places. However, they, and Mexico for that matter, do have a long way to go before being anything better than a dark horse at the World Cup, and even that’s only if they can get themselves a decent draw. Not to say it’ll never happen. After all, The US has come a long way since WC’94 when the vast majority of the country thought the final was between the Montreal Expos and the New York Yankees… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/393 "2005-03-15T01:11:37Z")
> [@Legolamb](#): > > At least we didn’t draw Scum U. Right. Your name’s gone into my filofax. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/394 "2005-03-15T01:22:16Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > Plumstead = Arsenal? > > Do you think you could get over the fact that Arsenal moved up to north London? I mean, it happened in 1913, so you’ve had plenty of time to get over it. What the hell do you care anyway? > > Okay, I’m just putzing with you a bit. Since I’m not a Tottenham or Highbury local, much less a Brit, I’m sure I don’t get the whole picture. > > Though I understand we remain a thorn in your arses, seeing as we got Sol and also swooped God out form your noses back in '95. > > What’s that I hear? Well, it’s certainly not the sound of silver from your end of the Seven Sisters Road. At last, a Yank opponent worthy of **Owl** and his minor public school southern softy insouciance. If by God you mean Dennis Bergkamp (I can’t believe you’re referring to Bruce Rioch), then personally I can’t imagine a deity who goes round elbowing people and then stamping on them when they hit the deck. **Gangster Octopus** , you are my hero. “The truth is that England probably should have superior talent at every postion except goalkeeper.” Oh, if I was allowed to change my birthday wish, it would be to see **Owl** ’s face when he read that. The only thing that he’s got to hold on to at the moment - his one security blanket in life - is that his precious Paul Robinson is the world’s best goalkeeper. Once again, you’re my hero. **Owl** , I’ll get the gen on Korea from my b-i-l, whose wife comes from there. I’ve never bee, but I hear the haircuts are particularly good. More later. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/395 "2005-03-15T01:30:33Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Though I’m hoping beyond hope that the Magpies can knock off the damned MUFC. We are playing our best football and if we’d done this since the beginning of the season, we’d be in the Top 4, surely. You’d be fourth mate - no question. First: Chelsea (good); second: Manchester (not bad); third: arsenal (on the sllde); fourth: Everton (nuff said). If Newcastle beat United, then they can truly claim to be better (on one day - league tables never lie) than a team that was played off the park home and away by a bunch of guidos. On a good day, they might even beat Celtic. ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/396 "2005-03-15T10:52:38Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Right. Your name’s gone into my filofax. 😃 If it helps, Chelsea are much scummier these days. Of course, you do have Rooney up front… ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/397 "2005-03-15T10:53:20Z")
> [@](#): > > I thought you didn’t want to be patronizing? You’re mostly wrong with #4. We’re well aware that friendlies don’t mean much, if anything. It’s just a quality game to help us prepare for WC qualification. Winning would be nice, but it wouldn’t make any headlines. I should have made that clearer. I don’t mean people such as yourself, or **Shibb** or pretty much any of the other lads in this thread. I mean fariweather fans and the people who have no knowledge of the game but have picked up the result and think it was actually a fair representation of the comparative state of the teams. To take the Australia example again, i got no end of stick from a couple of the tealeafs who work here (and in the pubs i drink at) after that result. I didn’t mind it from a few of them who were only having a laugh, and knew that it was a mickey mouse game. But there were a helluvah lot though who _genuinely_ believed that it showed that Australia were the superior team. I fully respect any fan who knows their football no matter what their team (even Spurs Scum like **owl**!) and enjoy a good argument about the game, but you can’t argue with fairweather fans because they no fuck all about the football apart from the fact that their team is the best. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/398 "2005-03-15T11:20:14Z")
> [@Ivar](#): > > Plumstead = Arsenal? > > Do you think you could get over the fact that Arsenal moved up to north London? I mean, it happened in 1913, so you’ve had plenty of time to get over it. What the hell do you care anyway? > > Okay, I’m just putzing with you a bit. Since I’m not a Tottenham or Highbury local, much less a Brit, I’m sure I don’t get the whole picture. > > Though I understand we remain a thorn in your arses, seeing as we got Sol and also swooped God out form your noses back in '95. > > What’s that I hear? Well, it’s certainly not the sound of silver from your end of the Seven Sisters Road. It’s not just 1913 though is it? - it’s the bribing your way into the league, buggering about with tube station names and so on - your stadium’s on wheels it moves every so often, it’s due another move now that the bailiffs have caught up with you again. Not to mention that you’ve got a team full of luggage stealing, gold smuggling, wife beating, drink-driving sex pests. And one unmarried centre half. And an unmarried midfielder, and a manager with a cheeky smile. Other than that you’re all lovely 😉 Would you like to come and hold some European winners medals. It would make a nice change for you. D’ya like dags? ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/399 "2005-03-15T11:27:41Z")
Don’t forget us throwing games to get you relegated **owl**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2005, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/400 "2005-03-15T11:29:41Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > At last, a Yank opponent worthy of **Owl** and his minor public school southern softy insouciance. If by God you mean Dennis Bergkamp (I can’t believe you’re referring to Bruce Rioch), then personally I can’t imagine a deity who goes round elbowing people and then stamping on them when they hit the deck. > > **Gangster Octopus** , you are my hero. “The truth is that England probably should have superior talent at every postion except goalkeeper.” Oh, if I was allowed to change my birthday wish, it would be to see **Owl** ’s face when he read that. The only thing that he’s got to hold on to at the moment - his one security blanket in life - is that his precious Paul Robinson is the world’s best goalkeeper. Once again, you’re my hero. > > **Owl** , I’ll get the gen on Korea from my b-i-l, whose wife comes from there. I’ve never bee, but I hear the haircuts are particularly good. More later. Harrumph… To me Bergkamp is where it all started to go wrong. We had first dibs on him (and apparently he was a boyhood THFC fan) but Alan Sugar (cursed be his name) wouldn’t shell out the £7m, preferring instead to spend £10m on Les Ferdinand and Ruel Fox (for fuck’s sake). It’s the point at which we stopped being serious players in the transfer market - despite being wealthier (at the time) than the Arse Anal. Oh and Friedl is better than Robinson? If you believe that my good friend, I have an email from a Nigerian contact which offers a seriously good chance to get rich. You’d be a fool not to take him up on his generous offer. South Korea really isn’t turning into an appealing trip - it is all cars and dogs isn’t it? We are playing in Mauritius too. That’s a bit more like it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867.md?page=21)