# English Premier League and Football in General **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867 "2005-02-01T22:49:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ocean\_City\_Maryland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@Ocean\_City\_Maryland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_City_Maryland)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/61 "2005-02-03T18:43:09Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > At it’s most basic a loan is just that. The player goes to another club who pay his wages for the period, and the loaning club retain the registration (and thus the entitlement to any fee). > > However any number of conditions can be agreed - eg the loan player won’t play against the loaning club. He will only play 1st team games, He won’t play in the cup (thereby getting cup-tied etc). > > It’s a fluid arrangement. Gotcha, thanks **Owl**. Can I call you **The Great Gray Owl**? National Geographic just ran a great story on the [Great Gray Owl](http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0502/feature4/index.html). I love Owls! Anyway, one last English Football question. If the World Cup were to start today, what would the English starting lineup look like? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/62 "2005-02-03T18:59:54Z")
> [@+MDI](#): > > Wigan does have a big support base (across Wigan anyway), it’s just that the stadium is now miles away from anywhere in a derelict part of Wigan (New Town). If they got into the Premiership, the support would increase, anyway. Fair point on the first part - until Googling it, I hadn’t realised how low the rugby attendance at the JJB had fallen. As for the second part, fair point, but too obvious 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/63 "2005-02-03T19:17:46Z")
Just imagine if Wigan had kept Springfield Park, though :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/64 "2005-02-03T21:44:50Z")
[http://castlereagaa.com/3302425758.wmv](http://castlereagaa.com/3302425758.wmv) Interesting perspective of the tunnel incident at the recent Man. U/Arsenal match. Some swearing but otherwise a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/65 "2005-02-04T02:11:26Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > FWIW everything I can find indicates that Spector did _not_ get loaned to Blackburn but instead the deal was squashed, according to SAF because of injuries in the United defense. > > **Roger Thornhill** , do you have something to the contrary or are you just going off of old data? Ignore me, **Shibb** , I’m just an expatriate Manchester United supporter, who eats too many prawn sandwiches - well, prawn dumplings, anyway. (I recalled hearing something about Spector going on loan, googled, found a site that said he said he was off to Rovers, and jumped in.) It will never happen again. Re the rumble in the tunnel, bits of which I saw on the box when it happened, Keane is awesome. Have you read his autobiography? Well worth a read. Much of the success at Manchester United since 1992 can be put down to three people, Fergie, Cantona and Keane. Cantona was like a Pied Piper who lent self-belief to the young players, while the relationship between manager and Cantona’s successor as captain has underpinned the triumphs. He also learned to deal with the booze, which blighted the careers of the likes of Jimmy Greaves and George Best in the 60s. Giggs has long been my favourite player (versatile, tough, pacey, skilful, team player), but Keane is the heartbeat of the team. Which other player could take the piss out of his own fans for their lack of passion and get away with it? A diamond. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/66 "2005-02-05T13:40:08Z")
I’m watching Crystal Palace and Bolton this morning. So far Bolton seem to have a slight edge. If the Johnson you reference is the hairless one playing up front then he seems decent enough but doesn’t get much support. I think FSW are airing a Man City game later this weekend, so perhaps I’ll get a chance to check out Phillips as well. Thanks for the recos. ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/67 "2005-02-05T15:39:52Z")
Couple of very minor nitpicks on the loan front: Nick Barmby was released by Leeds United, so he’s on Hull City’s permanent playing staff. Fees can be paid for loan signings, particularly where the player is well regarded enough. For example, Celtic paid Wolves £1.5m to take Henri Camara on loan for the rest of the season (he later returned and was loaned out to Southampton instead). That was, and probably still is, the British record “loan fee”. ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/68 "2005-02-05T22:50:08Z")
Norwich v. West Bromwich Albion - the battle for the bottom: Well, as I mentioned further up in this thread I stated I was rooting for Norwich to stay in the Premiership and not get relegated. So I’m happy about the outcome of this match. But, geez - W.B.A. outplayed Norwich almost the entire game. Robson must surely be pulling his hair out over this one. Norwich didn’t play especially well - but they do seem to have the ability to come back and make games interesting. Francis’s winning goal was lovely. I feel badly for W.B.A. (I like Earnshaw, Gera, and Purse as players), but that’s what happens when you can’t capatilize on easy opportunities and your defense breaks down at the wrong moments. Oh, and **GorillaMan** - 🙂 🙂 - sorry, couldn’t resist. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/69 "2005-02-05T23:34:29Z")
> [@eponymous](#): > > Oh, and **GorillaMan** - 🙂 🙂 - sorry, couldn’t resist. It’s alright, we’re five points clear - I can almost accept the idea of a derby next year 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/70 "2005-02-07T09:46:57Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I’m watching Crystal Palace and Bolton this morning. So far Bolton seem to have a slight edge. If the Johnson you reference is the hairless one playing up front then he seems decent enough but doesn’t get much support. ☹ Yup, that’s him. I thought Palace did ok, but we just couldn’t score. AJ works hard but he does lack support. It will be interesting to see him playing for England on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/71 "2005-02-07T12:46:42Z")
Well the boys made my Pompey prediction a little more likely (although to be fair to the skates they did play quite well) Palace fan chap: Are you resigned to losing Routledge at the end of the season (we don’t want him now we have Reid, but there wil be other takers no doubt - wouldn’t the money have been useful?) What do people think should happen to Chelsea - they seem pretty guilty of tapping up Cole? However it goes on all the time - they’re just more blatant than most. Oh and Mido? What a debut! ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/72 "2005-02-07T13:14:10Z")
> [@Ocean City](#): > > Do players ever wind up playing against the team that owns him? Perhaps the most amusing and high-profile recent example would be that of Fernando Morientes (who recently signed for Liverpool). In the 2002/2003 season (I think) he was loaned to Monaco by Real Madrid. Subsequently, the two teams met in the European Cup, and Morientes scored two goals for Monaco over the two legs to put the team that owned him out! Despite this, I think that he even went back to Madrid at the end of his loan period and played a few more games for them before leaving last year. I can’t imagine what sort of reception he got from the fans and staff on his return! ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/73 "2005-02-07T22:22:48Z")
Southampton vs. Everton - Geez, a heartbreaker for Redknapp and the Saints. Everton looked (and played) like crap the entire match, but pulled out a draw in the last seconds of stoppage time with a goal by Bent. ---
**Author:** ![Ithaka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Ithaka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ithaka)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/74 "2005-02-08T09:51:58Z")
> [@owlstretchingtime](#): > > Palace fan chap: Are you resigned to losing Routledge at the end of the season (we don’t want him now we have Reid, but there wil be other takers no doubt - wouldn’t the money have been useful?) Depends whether we stay up or not. If we go down I expect we’ll lose him and AJ. If not, who knows? Dowie is one of those managers that inspires loyalty. When Spurs was chasing Routledge Dowie said that he’d rather have him as a player than have the money. ---
**Author:** ![Busy\_Scissors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d78d45/32.png) [@Busy\_Scissors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Busy_Scissors)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/75 "2005-02-08T13:35:54Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > Re the rumble in the tunnel, bits of which I saw on the box when it happened, Keane is awesome. Have you read his autobiography? Well worth a read. Much of the success at Manchester United since 1992 can be put down to three people, Fergie, Cantona and Keane. Cantona was like a Pied Piper who lent self-belief to the young players, while the relationship between manager and Cantona’s successor as captain has underpinned the triumphs. He also learned to deal with the booze, which blighted the careers of the likes of Jimmy Greaves and George Best in the 60s. Giggs has long been my favourite player (versatile, tough, pacey, skilful, team player), but Keane is the heartbeat of the team. Which other player could take the piss out of his own fans for their lack of passion and get away with it? A diamond. Steady on **Rog**. A diamond? I like Roy Keane a lot myself, as uncompromising men are easy to admire (voice of Robert the Bruce’s old man in Braveheart). However, he lives in infamy for his knee-breaking assault on Alfie Haaland, something that should never be forgotten when discussing the bloke, a most cowardly act. There is definitely room in the premiership for a few thugs, especially if they are as talented as Keane or Rooney, for example. Most thugs lack character though, and can be relied upon to disgrace themselves and their team sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/76 "2005-02-08T13:48:05Z")
> [@Ocean City](#): > > Anyway, one last English Football question. If the World Cup were to start today, what would the English starting lineup look like? > > Thanks THere’s two questions here. One is if we started tomotrrow what would we look like. My guess is (playing 4-4-2 which Sven and the players like): GK: Robinson RB: G Nevill CB: Ferdinand CH: Campbell (spit!) LB A Cole RM: Beckham © CM Lampard CM Gerrard LM ??? (I’d give SWP a go) Hole: Rooney CF: Owen However what the actual team could look like is: GK: Robinson RB: Anyone other than Neville PLEASE! CB Terry CH Judas LB A Cole RM Beckham CM Lampard CM Gerrard LM Downing CF: Defoe Cf Rooney. With SWP to come on when Beckam’s legs tire ---
**Author:** ![Legolamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4491bb/32.png) [@Legolamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legolamb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/77 "2005-02-08T14:16:01Z")
Sven says Wright-Phillips will be starting the Holland friendly on the right and that Downing and Andy Johnson will play (although probably not start), at least according to BBC Teletext anyway. I guess that means Beckham and Lampard/Gerrard will start in the centre with the other one of Lampard/Gerrard on the left. Hopefully SWP, Lampard, Gerrard and Downing will all impress enough for Sven to finaly realise that Beckham is only good enough to warm up the bench. I can dream… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/78 "2005-02-08T14:32:02Z")
Sven doesn’t take friendlies seriously. I think you can assume that SWP and Downing are on the plane to Germany next year. Johnstone’s got a lot to do: Rooney; Owen; Defoe; Smith are all ahead of him and realistically he’s only good enough to challenge Smith - so he’s hoping for an injury to get in the WC squad. If yo work on the basis that the WC Squad wil have two players for every position and then be cut back to 22 I think it’s likely to be this: GK; Robinson/James RB G Neville/Carragher CB Campbell/Terry CH Ferdinand/King LB A Coe/Bridges RM Beckham/SWP CB Lampard/Butt CB Gerrard/A N Other LM Downing/Parker (if fit) Forwards: Rooney Owen Defoe Smith ---
**Author:** ![eponymous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e0b2c6/32.png) [@eponymous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eponymous)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2005, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/79 "2005-02-08T17:14:04Z")
> [@Myler Keogh](#): > > Steady on **Rog**. A diamond? I like Roy Keane a lot myself, as uncompromising men are easy to admire (voice of Robert the Bruce’s old man in Braveheart). However, he lives in infamy for his knee-breaking assault on Alfie Haaland, something that should never be forgotten when discussing the bloke, a most cowardly act. Saw the replay of the leg breaking incident on FSW last night - nasty. I wasn’t aware of the incident previously; now I understand why he’s reviled as much as he is. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_City\_Maryland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@Ocean\_City\_Maryland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_City_Maryland)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2005, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867/80 "2005-02-09T04:53:16Z")
Hey, thanks for all the replys to my questions, particulary regarding the English World Cup lineup. Somehow I stumbed upon [this link](http://www.footballextra.com/index.php?idd=special/2004_goty&PHPSESSID=a04f80e3e99fae1491801d97bacccbc5) which shows the **Goals of the Year: 2004**. Whoa! Un-freakin-believable! That goal by **Zlatan Ibrahimovic** is f-ing amazing! What can you guys tell me about this guy? Is he a super star? Hell, all of those goals are jaw-dropping! I gotta get satellite, man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-premier-league-and-football-in-general/287867.md?page=5)