# English synonyms with different roots (Germanic and Romance) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 12, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049 "2011-04-12T02:51:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/21 "2011-04-14T09:15:15Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > breakable, fragile \ -able is of Latin origin \ ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/22 "2011-04-14T13:24:42Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > Not “obviously”, but “often” or “typically”. For example, there’s _sky_… It is indeed obvious that if there is an immediate need for a word to refer to something (and of course particular needs are debatable), a people are not going to just wait around for a “better” one from another language before they talk about it. "Sky’ isn’t of English origin, but “above” and “up” are–both these words afford other ways to refer to what “sky” refers to. In that way, it’s an interesting observation to bring up “sky,” in that because it’s a substantive, it in a way is an abstraction, and perhaps that indicates something about it’s “foreign” origin. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/23 "2011-04-14T15:36:09Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > In addition to the animal/food division seen above, there also seems to be a noun/adjective thing going on here too, where the noun is Germanic but the associated adjective is Romance. > > e.g. > > (noun/adjective) > > Moon/Lunar (or, Selene from Greek) > Earth/Terrestrial or Terran > Heaven/Celestial (though we also can say Heavenly, we don’t commonly use Celeste or anything etymologically related as a noun, like you would see in a Romance language) > Iron/Ferrous or Ferric > Gold/Auric > Tin/Stannic > Lead/Plumb (“He’s plumb crazy!”) (“Hand me that plumb bob, plz kthx awsum”) > Day/Diurnal > Twilight/Crepuscular > Night/Nocturnal > Cat/Feline > Dog/Canine > Woman/Feminine > Man/Masculine > Child/Juvenile > Teenager/Adolescent Some of these have Germanic adjectives, though, too. Gold and tin are often their own adjectives (gold watch, _The Tin Drum_). Also, e.g., man/manly, child/childish, iron/ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/24 "2011-04-14T17:32:56Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Cease and desist > Law and order > Aid and abet > Spouse and wife/husband Cease and desist are both from the Latin. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/25 "2011-04-14T18:59:26Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > It is indeed obvious that if there is an immediate need for a word to refer to something (and of course particular needs are debatable), a people are not going to just wait around for a “better” one from another language before they talk about it. "Sky’ isn’t of English origin, but “above” and “up” are–both these words afford other ways to refer to what “sky” refers to. In that way, it’s an interesting observation to bring up “sky,” in that because it’s a substantive, it in a way is an abstraction, and perhaps that indicates something about it’s “foreign” origin. Just because something is “obvious” doesn’t mean that it is actually true! 🙂 People adopt new words, change or extend or restrict existing meanings, and abandon words, for all sorts of reasons. Logical necessity is only one of those reasons. So far as I can make out, “sky” provides a more precise, unambiguous meaning than the Old English word “lyft”. But what logical benefit is gained by abandoning “nim(-)” for “take”? Or by replacing some (but only some) Old English pronouns with Scandinavian ones? What need was met by various unrelated Balkan languages creating a postpositional definite article when more closely related languages did not? What need was met by certain French dialects abandoning certain Latin numerals in favour of a construction based on “four-twenties”? It’s all very well to assert nice-sounding logical principles founded on abstract reasoning; but that’s to ignore the evidence of how language **actually** works and changes. Some or many language changes are indeed “obvious”; but there are plenty of other changes that are clearly anything but. ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/26 "2011-04-14T19:01:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > Cease and desist are both from the Latin. And while the origins of “abet” seem to be disputed, it’s not a word with a pure-blood Germanic pedigree. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/27 "2011-04-14T20:10:21Z")
ventral - abdominal ---
**Author:** ![A.Gwilliam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@A.Gwilliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.Gwilliam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/28 "2011-04-14T20:32:29Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > ventral - abdominal Both from Latin! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/29 "2011-04-15T00:20:07Z")
> [@A.Gwilliam](#): > > People adopt new words, change or extend or restrict existing meanings, and abandon words, for all sorts of reasons. Logical necessity is only one of those reasons. So far as I can make out, “sky” provides a more precise, unambiguous meaning than the Old English word “lyft”. But what logical benefit is gained by abandoning “nim(-)” for “take”? Or by replacing some (but only some) Old English pronouns with Scandinavian ones? Of course you can’t always explain _why_ every change has taken place after a word has already been in use. (Though I would say neither can you judge with too much certainty the “precision” of any meaning hundreds of years removed from context.) And you can rattle off all kinds of specific word changes or adoptions, but so what? The fact that “nim-” was replaced by “take” is not really relevant to the point that words like “apse” and “govern” are not Germanic because of historical context. To get back to the original point, of the two to three hundred or so most commonly spoken English words today (Michigan corpus), I’d say no more than 5% are not of Old English origin (“take” being one of the highest on the list). We can’t always explain why the changes do happen, but they don’t happen in a vacuum, spontaneously. Without some cause for change (whatever it may be), the lexicon will more or less remain as it is. ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/30 "2011-04-15T01:36:59Z")
Very interesting thread! As a Spanish speaker (Spanish is a derivation of vulgar Latin) I found it amazing how many Latin words had the English dictionary, and also how many words are Germanic. In Spanish, Germanic words are just a few of Visigoth influence, but quite amazingly, are those that sound more “Spanish” (Bandido, Bernardo, Banda, Guzman, Bandera, for example). In any case, this is something that I love of English. A language that seems to be a perfect fusion of Latin, French and German influences. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/31 "2011-04-15T15:45:50Z")
My favorite pair is island /isle; island is from Germanic, isle from French\>Latin. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049/32 "2011-04-15T15:50:42Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > My favorite pair is > island /isle; island is from Germanic, isle from French\>Latin. Well, I’ll be damned. You appear to be right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-synonyms-with-different-roots-germanic-and-romance/578049.md?page=1)