# English translations with English that is obscure in English? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** cartoons-animation\ **Created:** [April 15, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088 "2025-04-15T23:56:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2025, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/1 "2025-04-15T23:56:17Z")
The two titles I’m currently thinking of are manga/anime series. Their official English names are _Dance in the Vampire Bund_ and _Witch Hat Atelier_. Both “bund” and “atelier” are words that are used in the English language, but I had never to my recollection encountered them “in the wild” before or since and I would guess that the words are obscure to the majority of English speakers. > **[What is a Bund in Construction?](https://alsyedconstruction.com/what-is-a-bund-in-construction/)** > > In construction and civil engineering, a bund refers to a type of embankment or barrier designed to control water, prevent flooding, and manage waste materials. > **[Definition of ATELIER](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atelier)** > > an artist's or designer's studio or workroom; workshop… See the full definition Any other examples of English translations that use less-than-household words? (Examples outside of manga/anime are not only allowed but encouraged.) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/2 "2025-04-16T04:11:27Z")
There’s also the classic Hong Kong TV series “The Bund” that takes place in Shanghai (which has a district called “The Bund”). Not to mention the various remakes of the original. > **[The Bund (TV series)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bund_(TV_series))** > > The Bund is a Hong Kong period crime drama television series first broadcast on TVB in 1980. It is praised as "The Godfather of the East" and spawned two sequels, two remakes, and a film adaptation. The theme song, which shares the same Chinese title as the series and was performed by Frances Yip, also became a memorable Cantopop hit. > The series is set in China in the 1920s. Hui Man-keung, a Yenching University graduate who has served three years in prison for participating in the May Fourth Mov... ---
**Author:** ![yendis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ed8c4c/32.png) [@yendis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yendis)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/3 "2025-04-16T11:25:36Z")
The multiplayer game Warthunder occasionally uses the word ‘gramercy’ as a synonym for thanks when using its autotext messaging system. Warthunder is made by Russian developers and they chose ‘gramercy’ as an old-timy sounding word when translating to English. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/4 "2025-04-16T12:39:54Z")
“Bund” of course is a German word meaning roughly “club” or “association”. Its last famous use in the USA was the **[German American Bund - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_Bund)** which was a group of US ethnic German Nazi sympathizers from ~1933 until late 1941 when world events abruptly intervened. So I expect the OP’s _Dance in the Vampire Bund_ is probably a poetical reference to hanging out in the vampire’s club or clubhouse or in the company of vampires, or somesuch. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/5 "2025-04-16T13:13:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > So I expect the OP’s _Dance in the Vampire Bund_ is probably a poetical reference to hanging out in the vampire’s club or clubhouse or in the company of vampires, or somesuch. Yes, but it also takes place on a small island, so the embankment near water definition isn’t implausible either. Possibly a deliberate double meaning? ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/6 "2025-04-16T14:58:55Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, but it also takes place on a small island, so the embankment near water definition isn’t implausible either. When I saw that it took place in an island called The Bund, I personally thought of Shanghai’s waterfront neighbourhood (of the same name). – Emile Zola’s book _L’assommoir_ is sometimes translated as _The Dram Shop_, which is a bit obscure nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/7 "2025-04-16T16:36:19Z")
I don’t really think either of those words are _that_ obscure. Anyone who watches shows like Project Runway or anything about fashion has heard _atelier._ I know bund as in the American Bund during WWII, ie American Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/8 "2025-04-16T16:39:43Z")
It’s a bit odd to call those English translations because those seem to be the actual English loan words that are used in the Japanese titles (“bando” and “atorie”). So it’s more a matter of the Japanese title using obscure loan words in the first place rather than an unusual translation of a more common word. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/9 "2025-04-16T22:17:20Z")
Our local symphony, for which i sing in the chorus, is doing a version of Peer Gynt, originally by Ibsen with incidental music by Edvard Grieg. The singing is largely in Norwegian, but the dialogue is in English. At one point a troll says to Peer Gynt “Infirtilate her?” (with outrage, so it’s apparently a bad thing). As far as i can find, there is no such word. Does that count as obscure? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/10 "2025-04-17T20:12:18Z")
That sounds like a fancy way of saying “knock her up.” ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2025, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/11 "2025-04-19T15:37:26Z")
I would think that most people who don’t know about fashion wouldn’t know what an atelier was. I sure don’t. I feel kind of dumb because even though I knew what a bund was I thought the anime title was a reference to some obscure dance. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/12 "2025-04-20T21:24:43Z")
When I can find the time (and dedication) I read French newspapers online for vocabulary (which works well because you can insta-translate words you don’t know), and this sort of thing has happened to me a couple of times. One was the French word “_autochtone_”, which insta-translated into English as “_autochthonous_”. Helpful. (Autochthonoust means something like indigenous.) j ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/13 "2025-04-20T21:28:54Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > That sounds like a fancy way of saying “knock her up.” Inconceivable, what if she is impregnable? ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/14 "2025-04-20T21:29:13Z")
_Bund_ meaning a dam is “of course” not a German word at all. It comes from Hindi, a loanword from Persian _band_ meaning ‘closure’ which is “of course” an Indo-European cognate of band, bind, bond, bound, and _Bund_. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/15 "2025-04-20T21:39:03Z")
My nominee for worst translation into English of all time is the 16th-century atrocity “begging the question,” a crap translation from Latin _petitio principii_, itself a crap translation from the original Greek τὸ ἐν ἀρχῇ αἰτεῖσθαι (_tò en archêi aiteîsthai_ ‘asking the original point’). The verb _αἰτέω_ ‘ask’ can also mean ‘postulate, assume’. English _ask_ and Latin _petitio_ do not have that extended meaning, so that a literal translation from Greek makes gibberish in Latin and English. So nowadays 9 out of 10 English speakers haven’t the least clue what “begging the question” really means. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/16 "2025-04-20T21:40:37Z")
P.S. and bundt cake. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2025, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/17 "2025-04-20T21:42:06Z")
I think we’re maybe talking past one another. Bund as a German word meaning roughly “association” is most certainly a German word. One since imported to English with that same meaning: an association. Bund as you say is also a type of dam, and that word has the etymology you cite. The OP seemed to me to have glommed onto the dam version from a position of google-driven ignorance and was unaware of the alternate meaning that IMO fit the rest of the source sentence better. So I pointed out the other unrelated meaning. Perhaps my “of course” was an overstatement and a sign of my ignorance about the “dam” meaning. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/18 "2025-04-23T07:31:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > was unaware of the alternate meaning that IMO fit the rest of the source sentence better. Except it doesn’t. The Bund in _Vampire Bund_ is a district built on an artificial island where a minority population lives, the comparison to the real-life Chinese Bunds where foreigners live is very fitting. A bund is also a dyke used to isolate toxic waste liquids - that’s also (unintentionally, probably) appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/19 "2025-04-23T10:55:39Z")
Arguably the “poster child” for weird translations into English is Sir Richard Burton’s unexpurgated translation of the _Thousand and One Nights_. Although he billed it as a “plain and literal translation”, critics from his day to the present have argued that it is anything but. From the Wikipedia article on it: > [@](#): > > Burton’s 17 volumes, while boasting many prominent admirers, have been criticised for their “archaic language and extravagant idiom” > > … > > In translating the _Nights_, Burton attempted to invent an English equivalent of medieval Arabic. In doing so, he drew upon [Chaucerian English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English), [Elizabethan English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabethan_English), and the 1653 English translation by Sir [Thomas Urquhart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Urquhart) of the first three books of [Rabelais](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabelais)’s _[Gargantua and Pantagruel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gargantua_and_Pantagruel)_ (1532-1546).[[13]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Thousand_Nights_and_a_Night#cite_note-13) > > According to British historian and Arabist [Robert Irwin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Irwin_(writer)): > > > Burton shared [John] Payne’s enthusiasm for archaic and forgotten words. The style Burton achieved can be described as a sort of composite mock-Gothic, combining elements from [Middle English](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_English), the [Authorized Version of the Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_Version_of_the_Bible) and [Jacobean drama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobean_drama). Most modern readers will also find Burton’s Victorian vulgarisms jarring, for example ‘regular [Joe Millers](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Joe_Miller)’, ‘[Charleys](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Charlie#Noun_2)’, and ‘[red cent](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/red_cent)’. Burton’s translation of the _Nights_ can certainly be recommended to anyone wishing to increase their word-power: ‘[chevisance](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/chevisance)’, ‘[fortalice](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fortalice)’, ‘[kemperly](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kemper)’, ‘[cark](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cark)’, ‘[foison](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foison)’, ‘[soothfast](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/soothfast)’, ‘[perlection](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/perlection)’, ‘[wittol](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wittol)’, ‘[parergon](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/parergon)’, ‘[brewis](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/brewis)’, ‘bles’, ‘[fadaise](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fadaise)’, ‘[coelebs](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/coelebs)’, ‘[vivisepulture](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vivisepulture)’, and so on. ‘[Whilome](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whilome)’ and ‘[anent](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/anent)’ are standard in Burton’s vocabulary. The range of vocabulary is wider and stranger than Payne’s, lurching between the erudite and the plain earthy, so that [Harun al-Rashid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_al-Rashid) and [Sinbad](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinbad) walk and talk in a linguistic [Never Never Land](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Never_Land).[[14]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Thousand_Nights_and_a_Night#cite_note-FOOTNOTEIrwin199431-14) I don’t agree. I think Burton’s translation has a style and charm about it that makes it a great read. But I can see how some people would like to have a translation of the translation. > **[The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_the_Thousand_Nights_and_a_Night)** > > The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night (1888), subtitled A Plain and Literal Translation of the Arabian Nights Entertainments, is the only complete English language translation of One Thousand and One Nights (the Arabian Nights) to date – a collection of Middle Eastern and South Asian stories and folk tales compiled in Arabic during the Islamic Golden Age (8th−13th centuries) – by the British explorer and Arabist Richard Francis Burton (1821–1890). It stands as the only complete translati... ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088/20 "2025-04-23T11:10:08Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Arguably the “poster child” for weird translations into English is Sir Richard Burton’s unexpurgated translation of the _Thousand and One Nights_. I have a set of the three volume edition that I bought at a flea market (I’m sure for under $10) in the early 1990s. I started reading it but didn’t go more than a couple of hundred pages, not because I had anything against it but because there were other things to do with my time, I sat it aside for later, and suddenly 30 years passed. > **[The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night - 3 Volume set -Richard](https://postmarkedfromthestars.com/products/the-book-of-the-thousand-nights-and-a-night-richard-f-burton-1934-heritage-press)** > > Condition: Acceptable condition for used books! Some wear.  Lovely line drawings throughout. by Valenti Angelo. See images for the condition of this book. RARE- Complete 3 volume set!!! Blurb:  A Plain and Literal... (There is a[Project Gutenberg version](https://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=book+of+a+thousand+nights&submit_search=Search&sort_order=title), BTW.) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/english-translations-with-english-that-is-obscure-in-english/1017088.md?page=2)