# Enie, Minie, Miney, Meaux **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484 "2014-05-02T03:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/61 "2014-05-03T13:16:29Z")
I just watched the clip in question. Clarkson mumbles the entire second line (as is not uncommon for this sort of thing - if you think about counting a dozen items, you might often only clearly utter the first and last few). IMO, he muttered the offensive version, and it was stupid, but not deliberately provocative. Dumb mistake, not racist trolling. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/62 "2014-05-03T13:20:17Z")
I learned it as “catch a n-word by the toe” when I was a kid growing up in 1980s Ireland. I think it was Calvin & Hobbes that introduced me to the tiger version and by the time I was 8 or 9 or 10 I realised it was better than the original way I had learned it. Terms like “n-word in the woodpile” were common in my childhood too. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/63 "2014-05-03T15:19:52Z")
OP, what’s with the mustard in the hed? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/64 "2014-05-03T15:21:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Eh, I kind of expect an adult to understand that it’s inappropriate to mumble nigger and he should have known immediately to sub another word or another rhyme. That he didn’t bespeaks a lack of thoughtfulness or caring that I would find disappointing if I didn’t already consider him the second worst television personality the UK has seen fit to inflict upon is. Accept our gratitude for taking Piers Morgan, if you will. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/65 "2014-05-03T15:34:34Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > While in general this is true, the culture differences make this more likely. For example, I don’t know if an American would think twice about using the work “Paki” but it’s a very bad word elsewhere. I don’t know if that would apply in this instance. > … Really, my impression (Canada) is that it’s mildly offensive, like Jap or Krout. The most offensive part I think here is that the people that are ignorant enough to use it here probably are also ignorant of the difference between a Pakistani, and Indian, Sri Lankan, and even apply it to Iranians and middle eastern types due to the superficially similarity. The offensiveness comes in deliberately using a less than polite term. AFAIK it does not have the baggage and nowhere sinks to the level of “nigger” in terms of loaded nastiness or deliberate offensiveness. I assume the situation is very different in Britain? I remember (I think it was Sydney Olympics) one of the older commentators on Canadian TV was discussing the performances of Canadian athletes and in passing called one a “Chinaman”. After a commercial break he was back on grovelling his way into a retraction “…meant no offense or disrespect, I apologize for the totally inappropriate…” yada yada. I had no idea until then the term was not-fit-for-TV offensive, I had assumed it was simply mildly condescending and antiquated and so rarely heard. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/66 "2014-05-03T15:55:37Z")
I learned the ‘tiger’ version first, in the '60s. Nowadays when I think of the rhyme, I can’t help thinking ‘Eenie, Manny, Moe, and Jack’… which would be more appropriate for a car show. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/67 "2014-05-03T16:35:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I learnt it as as “tiger” in a Saskatchewan small town in the 60s (sometimes pronounced “Tay-ger” in Saskatchewanese). In Saskatchewan circa 1980, I learned it as “tigger”, a la Winnie The Pooh. (And my mother pronounces tiger as “tagger”, which drives me nuts.) The long version was: Eeny meenie miney moe Catch a tigger by the toe If he hollers let him go Eeny meenie miney moe My mother and your mother were washing clothes My mother punched your mother in the nose What colour was her blood? \ B-L-U-E spells “blue” and you are not IT. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/68 "2014-05-03T17:46:15Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Really, my impression (Canada) is that it’s mildly offensive, like Jap or Krout. The most offensive part I think here is that the people that are ignorant enough to use it here probably are also ignorant of the difference between a Pakistani, and Indian, Sri Lankan, and even apply it to Iranians and middle eastern types due to the superficially similarity. The offensiveness comes in deliberately using a less than polite term. AFAIK it does not have the baggage and nowhere sinks to the level of “nigger” in terms of loaded nastiness or deliberate offensiveness. > > I assume the situation is very different in Britain?. I would say the word ‘paki’ is more offensive than ‘nigger’ in the UK. It’s of course really hard to compare, because both terms attack different targets, but in my experience (which of course is limited), ‘Paki’ is a term hurled _at_ people, violently, ‘Nigger’ is a term spoken _about_ people (not that I’m suggesting its good, just used in generally different context) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/69 "2014-05-05T07:43:49Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I grew up in Minnesota in the 90s and I learned the nigger version here on the dope. If I were to recite it off the cuff, I’d say tiger. I grew up in rural Minnesota in the 50’s, and I learned the _catch a nigger_ version. But that changed after the civil Rights struggle of the early 1960’s – my younger brother learned it as _catch an injun_. That lasted until the in70’s and Wounded Knee. Then it changed to _catch a Chinaman by the toe_. Soon after that our small town got an exotic new restaurant, serving authentic chinese food – run by an immigrant from China. And a young cousin used that version to choose a dish from the selection he was offering – to the mortification of his parents. Recently, I’ve heard the grandchildren & greatgrandhildren using _catch a Martian by the toe_. Given what NASA has learned about the lack of life on Mars, that’s probably a safe version. (Until the time we start colonizing Mars!) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/70 "2014-05-05T09:23:42Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Black children in Memphis, at least during the 70s and 80s, always said “nickel.” At least in my neighborhood. Which made no sense, but I was not in charge. We always caught a “knicker”, which makes even less sense, and let ‘him’ go when he “hollowed”. Those were the closest equivalents to the canonical versions which were words we actually knew the meaning of. These days the kids catch either tigers or rabbits, but I was amused to note listening to my daughter today, they still “hollow”, same as always. Maybe those tigers are digging out pits in Minecraft or something… ---
**Author:** ![Celan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Celan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/71 "2014-05-05T14:20:27Z")
I didn’t know there was an ‘n’ version. The one I learned was … catch a German by the toe. If he hollers, make him say, “I surrender USA.” ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/72 "2014-05-05T17:23:47Z")
In the early 80s, in the UK, I learned the n-word version. I seem to remember that “Ip dip, dog shit” was a much more popular selection rhyme, though. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/73 "2014-05-05T20:27:32Z")
I wonder if this footage was leaked by someone in the TV industry, fed up with (in their view) _Top Gear_ getting away with another borderline-racist remark. There was slope-gate only a few weeks ago, and the lazy Mexicans one before that. Maybe someone recalled that they had this eeny-meeny clip on tape somewhere, and decided it was time to get Clarkson. Because in isolation, it doesn’t seem that newsworthy to me. As mentioned already, it was probably just Clarkson’s ingrained childhood memory of the rhyme kicking in. The ‘slope’ remark was worse, because that seemed quite deliberate, complete with knowing pause. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2014, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/74 "2014-05-05T21:35:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m 38, and grew up learning both versions at the same time in the late 70s/early 80s in Chicago. I seem to remember learning the “nigger” variant first. Interesting. I’m 37 and as a little kid lived in MA. I was probably 10 before I learned there was a non-tiger version of the rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/75 "2014-05-06T01:24:48Z")
I grew up in an all-white town and went to an all-white school in rural Alabama (70s-80s.) I remember both versions being common. I would probably say it was about 50-50. This is the one I remember. \* Eeny, meeny, miny moe Catch a (nigger/tiger) by the toe If he hollers make him pay Fifty dollars every day My momma told me To pick the best one And that is you\* ---
**Author:** ![AaronX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7bcc69/32.png) [@AaronX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AaronX)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/76 "2014-05-06T01:49:56Z")
Hmm, I’d only heard “Catch a spider on the wall”. I guess children use lots of rhymes without bothering about their meaning/origin, e.g. ring a ring of roses, yellow yellow dirty fellow, baa baa black sheep. I wonder what would happen to Enid Blyton were she around today? ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/77 "2014-05-06T02:24:39Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I envy all you who learned it as ‘tiger’. I fear that one day, when I am an alzheimery old man, I’ll revert it the way I originally learned it, and then wonder why everyone is calling me a racist. I’m glad I’m not the only one who has that thought. The other day I was thinking that if I start losing it too bad, euthanasia will be nice just so I save myself the indignity of losing my “I know better” filter. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/78 "2014-05-06T02:42:43Z")
> [@AaronX](#): > > I wonder what would happen to Enid Blyton were she around today? Heh. I always thought “Enid” was a man, growing up with my Noddy books and Noddy toothpaste and Noddy dolls and stuff. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/79 "2014-05-06T03:57:57Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > While in general this is true, the culture differences make this more likely. For example, I don’t know if an American would think twice about using the work “Paki” but it’s a very bad word elsewhere. I don’t know if that would apply in this instance. This american wouldn’t say paki\* as a term for a pakistani at all, much less in a situation where someone who might be offended by it could hear it. But I think nigger has a far more universal antipathy than paki and I simply do not think there’s any excuse for an educated adult in full possession of their faculties to think it would have been appropriate to use that rhyme mumbled or no. I find, more and more, apologies do very little for me. If they really cared, they’d take the time to do it right the first time around rather than run damage control after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484/80 "2014-05-06T04:39:24Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > Interesting. I’m 37 and as a little kid lived in MA. I was probably 10 before I learned there was a non-tiger version of the rhyme. I’m not entirely sure how old I was when I learned that rhyme, but somewhere in the 8-10 range would be about right for me. At any rate, we both seem to have learned the variation existed as children in the 80s, which is unusual for most of the US respondents here. I’m a little surprised at how many people didn’t know the variation existed until well into adulthood. That said, well, Chicago is a racially charged city. The child’s game “kill the man with the ball” was also known as “kill the nigger with the ball” or “smear the queer.” (The latter I know is known elsewhere. The former, I haven’t found much reference to except here.) I also have a clear memory, in seventh grade, when Harold Washington (the first African-American mayor of Chicago) died, one of my classmates said “Thank god that nigger is dead.” Twelve year old kid in 1987. Yep, my neighborhood, at least, was that kind of place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enie-minie-miney-meaux/687484.md?page=5)