# "Enlightened" In the religous sense what does it mean? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 27, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229 "2012-11-27T02:12:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/1 "2012-11-27T02:12:20Z")
Beyond the dictionary definition, what exactly does it mean in the real world to anyone that isn’t? In short, beyond the claim what are the proofs such as they are? Reason I am asking is because I had someone ‘throw’ that at me today. I simply dismissed it by saying “faith is not factually debatable by definition & enlightenment falls under said definition.” I then walked away slowly. [**enlightened**](http://www.tfd.com/enlightened) > [@](#): > > **2. privy to or claiming a sense of spiritual or religious revelation of truth an enlightened spiritual master** Yeah, OK, so? \*not sure this a factual question or a debate one. But I placed it here because I am looking for explanations/short answers, not debate. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/2 "2012-11-27T02:49:41Z")
I have heard some used the term to mean “have received and accepted God’s truth.” Which is pretty close to your dictionary definition. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/3 "2012-11-27T02:50:02Z")
Enlightenment is a Buddhist concept that indicates the practioner has freed himself from the constraints and petty desires of the material world. This indicates they have achieved the highest level of thought and practice, as first demonstrated by the Buddha. They are then capable of ascending to Nirvana and escaping the cycle of death and rebirth. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/4 "2012-11-27T03:15:28Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > Enlightenment is a Buddhist concept that indicates the practioner has freed himself from the constraints and petty desires of the material world. This indicates they have achieved the highest level of thought and practice, as first demonstrated by the Buddha. They are then capable of ascending to Nirvana and escaping the cycle of death and rebirth. **Sam** gives the Buddhist case well. Generalizing, it is the (generally sudden) awareness, usually through a(n) “Eureka” moment, of What Is Truly Important and how petty, by comparison, are the things of this world which enslave one to themselves. A sense of freedom and transcendence are general concomitants of an Enlightened state. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/5 "2012-11-28T01:53:56Z")
…and that furthermore the Eureka moment entails _seeing things as they are_, as opposed to the way they seem. Of course according to this view, seeing things as they are means understanding Buddhist doctrine, specifically the part addressing the non-existence of a permanent soul or self and ignorance’s role in perpetuating suffering. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/6 "2012-11-29T03:36:43Z")
Not sure where I heard this but it echos your post - ‘faith is it’s own justification.’ Personally, I’ve always read that to mean that not every experience can be expressed and yet some can literally change your life and/or blow your mind. That probably didn’t really add much did it? ---
**Author:** ![j\_sum1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8baadc/32.png) [@j\_sum1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j_sum1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/7 "2012-11-29T05:46:31Z")
From a Christian worldview the definition is not that esoteric. Ephesians 1:18-19 uses the word and then expounds on that by listing a few elaborations. > [@](#): > > the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that you may know what is the hope of His calling, and what is the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us, the ones believing according to the working of His mighty strength… There are better translations out there, but basically three things are listed. [ul] [li]knowing the hope of his calling[/li][li]knowing the riches of God’s glory associated with the inheritance that Christians are promised[/li][li]knowing the power of God at work in one’s life[/li][/ul] Included in that list are a few words with specific Christian meanings – most notably “hope of his calling”, “inheritance”. The best way to understand these is to see how these words and phrases are used elsewhere in the bible and unpack from there. The point is that the context is primarily an intellectual understanding. There may be an eureka moment and quite possibly a special revelation implied to bring a person to that point of understanding, but the essence of the concept is not some mystical process that is alien to the uninitiated. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/8 "2012-11-29T05:53:06Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > 1. privy to or claiming a sense of spiritual or religious revelation of truth an enlightened spiritual master Kind of a run-on sentence, no? So how do you parse that? 😕 In the context of this question, and the answers about conforming to religious doctrine, I’m taking pleasure in the name of the 18th-century Enlightenment, the name meaning that it radically _cast off_ adherence to religious dogma. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/9 "2012-11-29T06:42:27Z")
Isn’t it called an Epiphany? The moment of sudden realization or knowledge of God’s existence? (I’m just capitalizing the Christian version of epiphany) ---
**Author:** ![Enochian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b77776/32.png) [@Enochian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enochian)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2012, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/10 "2012-11-30T05:31:57Z")
To know that what you know is the truth. With absolute truth your mind is freed to ascend to a higher level of spiritual awareness and a higher level of awareness of reality. It’s similar to self actualization(see Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs), but on a spiritual level. That’s what I think anyway. I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/11 "2012-12-05T21:39:02Z")
Excuse the bump, but I’d forgotten this thread and had a couple of further questions upon reading some of the replies: > [@solosam](#): > > Enlightenment is a Buddhist concept that indicates the practioner has freed himself from the constraints and petty desires of the material world. This indicates they have achieved the highest level of thought and practice, as first demonstrated by the Buddha. **They are then capable of ascending to Nirvana and escaping the cycle of death and rebirth**. – bolding mine. Quite honestly I can’t made head or tails out of the highlight. Can you make it simpler/easier to understand? Beyond that, who/what gets to define “petty”? > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > …and that furthermore the Eureka moment entails **seeing things as they are** , as opposed to the way they seem. Of course according to this view, seeing things as they are means understanding Buddhist doctrine, specifically the part addressing the non-existence of a permanent soul or self and ignorance’s role in perpetuating suffering. From your own _italics_, same query, what does that mean? > [@deltasigma](#): > > Not sure where I heard this but it echos your post - ‘faith is it’s own justification.’ Personally, I’ve always read that to mean that not every experience can be expressed and yet some can literally change your life and/or blow your mind. > > That probably didn’t really add much did it? Made me think. Just not so sure that the caveat of being unable to verbalize something has anything to do with the capacity of any particular event to have life-altering results. > [@Enochian](#): > > To know that what you know is the truth. With absolute truth your mind is freed to ascend to a higher level of spiritual awareness and a higher level of awareness of reality. It’s similar to self actualization(see Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs), but on a spiritual level. That’s what I think anyway. I may be wrong. Again, read through all of these more than once – and as the others, I simply don’t “get” what “To know that what you know is the truth. With absolute truth your mind is freed to ascend to a higher level of spiritual awareness and a higher level of awareness of reality” means at all. Perhaps I need this explained in a way a ten year old could understand. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/12 "2012-12-05T21:48:36Z")
PS- FWIW, I _do_ understand **j\_sum1’s** post quite clearly. And I also got a kick out of **Johanna’s**. But the rest might as well be written in Aramaic. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/13 "2012-12-06T00:35:07Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Excuse the bump, but I’d forgotten this thread and had a couple of further questions upon reading some of the replies: > > – bolding mine. > > Quite honestly I can’t made head or tails out of the highlight. Can you make it simpler/easier to understand? Beyond that, who/what gets to define “petty”? There are lots of different strains of Buddhism, but a common tenet is that after you die, you are reincarnated into another body/species. You have no memory of your past life. Your new body is determined by your actions in your previous lives (your karma), so murderers might get reborn as beggars or cockroaches. This just keeps happening forever, unless you can achieve Enlightenment, at which point you fully understand how the process of karma works, and you understand what keeps you bound into the cycle of life and death and rebirth. Because you know how it works, you can free yourself. Then you can enter Nirvana, a state of bliss beyond life and death. In Buddhist terms, all concerns are petty, just by virtue of being concerns. The fact that you care about them means that your ego is invested, and this is a hindrance to understanding/becoming Enlightened. Enlightened beings (such as the Buddha) can try to explain it, but you have to learn it for yourself, by meditating, and following other Buddhist practices. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/14 "2012-12-06T00:41:26Z")
“Man, if you gotta ask, you’ll never know.” - Louis Armstrong ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/15 "2012-12-06T02:03:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > **Sam** gives the Buddhist case well. Generalizing, it is the (generally sudden) awareness, usually through a(n) “Eureka” moment, of What Is Truly Important and how petty, by comparison, are the things of this world which enslave one to themselves. A sense of freedom and transcendence are general concomitants of an Enlightened state. The difference between a “peak” experience (the “Eureka” moment above) and a more permanent “plateau” experience should not be understated. Almost anyone can have the former, but invariably they come back down to earth in their normal waking consciousness. If you can maintain the plateau on the other hand your consciousness will be transformed in the bargain to a newer higher state. ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/16 "2012-12-06T02:12:00Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Made me think. Just not so sure that the caveat of being unable to verbalize something has anything to do with the capacity of any particular event to have life-altering results. Just think about all of the layers language has to penetrate even when it is well adapted to convey an idea. So much rests on a shared cultural background for example. So really, when you communicate, you’re actually tapping into a common shared experience, it’s just not something that’s overt–rather it’s implicit by virtue of a shared cultural background. Even when you extend this to non-native speakers, there are still shared experiences that serve as the background for language, but this is also often where communication can become unreliable. The point is that language itself relies on experience to serve its purpose and it shouldn’t be too surprising that there are great swaths of human experience that are simply beyond the ability of language to capture. ---
**Author:** ![solosam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@solosam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solosam)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/17 "2012-12-06T15:51:07Z")
> [@](#): > > In Buddhist terms, all concerns are petty, just by virtue of being concerns. The fact that you care about them means that your ego is invested, and this is a hindrance to understanding/becoming Enlightened. +1. It’s also worth pointing out that since I am not enlightened, I cannot explain what enlightenment is. I can only tell you what I think it is. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/18 "2012-12-06T17:10:42Z")
> [@solosam](#): > > They are then capable of ascending to Nirvana and escaping the cycle of death and rebirth. “Ascending to Nirvana” in Buddhism isn’t necessarily what that phrase might suggest. “Nirvana” is a “snuffing out,” like one does to a candle. Nirvana is the state of being snuffed out as an individual and having your soul rejoin the one soul (atman). To be enlightened in Buddhism, thus, is to lose any sense of self. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/19 "2012-12-07T04:40:45Z")
Appreciate the further responses. STM I am far too earth-bound to go beyond my comprehension level. Not that I am complaining… ---
**Author:** ![deltasigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@deltasigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deltasigma)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229/20 "2012-12-07T05:23:00Z")
Sometimes language is like the lettering on a pair of Juicy couture hot pants in that it precisely targets what you’re after. Other times it’s completely useless, but those instances I think are rare. Much of the time I think it resembles, to varying degrees, a fairly intelligent golden lab who can’t actually explain anything to you, but can nudge you in the right general direction. Sort of like this passage from the [Lankavatara Sutra.](http://gnosis.org/library/lank.htm) > [@](#): > > Lankavatara Sutra > > Chapter I. > > Thus have I heard. The Blessed One once appeared in the Castle of Lanka > which is on the summit of Mt.Malaya in the midst of the great Ocean. > A great many Boddhisattva-Mahasattvas had miraculousy assembled from > all the Buddha-lands, and a large number of bhikshus were gathered there. > The Bodhisattva-Mahasattvas with Mahamati their head were all perfect > masters of the various Samadhis, the tenfold Self-mastery, the ten powers, > and the six Psychic Faculties. Having been anointed by the Buddha`s own > hands, they all well understood the significance of the objective world ; > they all knew how to apply the various means, teachings and disciplinary > measures according to the various mentalities and behaviours of beings; > they were thoroughly versed in the five Dharmas, the three Svabhavas, the > eight Vijnanas, and the twofold Egolessness. > > The Blessed One, knowing of the mental agitations going on in the minds of > those assembled (like the surface of the ocean stirred into waves by the passing winds), > and his great heart moved by compassion, smiled and said : In the days of old the > Tathagatas of the past who were Arhats and fully-enlightened Ones came to the Castle > of Lanka on Mt.Malaya and discoursed on the Truth of the Noble Wisdom that is beyond > the reasoning knowledge of the philosophers as well as being beyond the understanding > of ordinary disciples and masters ; and which is realisable only within the inmost consciousness > ; for your sakes, I too, would discourse on the same Truth. All that is seen in the world is devoid > of effort and action because all things in the world are like a dream, or like an image miraculously > projected. This is not comprehended by the philosophers and the ignorant, but those who thus > see them truthfully. Those who see things otherwise walk in discrimination and, as they depend > upon discrimination, they cling to dualism. The world as seen by discrimination is like seeing > one`s own image reflected in a mirror, or one`s shadow, or the moon reflected in water , or an > echo heard in the valley. People grasping their own shadows of discrimination become attached > to this thing and that thing and failing to abandon dualism they go on forever discriminating > and thus never attain tranquillity. By tranquillity is meant Oneness, and Oneness gives birth to > the highest Samadhi which is gained by entering into the realm of Noble Wisdom that is realiseable > only within one`s inmost consciousness. > > Then all the Boddhisattva-Mahasattvas rose from their seats and respectfully paid him homage > and Mahamati the Boddhisattva-Mahasattva sustained by the power of the Buddha drew his upper > garment over one shoulder, knelt and pressing his hands together, praised him in the following verses > > \*: As thou reviewest the world with thy perfect intelligence and compassion it must seem > to thee like an etheral flower of which one cannot say : it is born, it is destroyed, > for the terms being and non-being do not apply to it. > As thou reviewest the world with thy perfect intelligence and compassion, it must seem to thee > like a dream of which it cannot be said : it is permanent or it is destructible, for being and > non-being do not apply to it. > As thou reviewest all things by thy perfect intelligence and compassion, they must seem > to thee like visions beyond the reach of the human mind, > as being and non-being do not apply to them. > With thy perfect intelligence and compassion which are beyond all limit, thou comprehendest > the ego-lessness of things and persons, and art free and clear from the hindrances of > passion and learning and egoism. > Thou doest not vanish into Nirvana, nor does Nirvana abide in thee, for Nirvana transcends > all duality of knowing and known, of being and non-being. > Those who see thee thus, serene and beyond conception, will be emancipated from > attachment, will be cleansed of all defilement, both in this world and in the spiritual world beyond. > In this world whose nature is like a dream, there is place for praise and blame, > but in the ultimate Reality of the Dharmakaya which is far beyond the senses and the > disciminating mind, what is there to praise? O thou most Wise! \* [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enlightened-in-the-religous-sense-what-does-it-mean/642229.md?page=2)