# Enough about "nice guys." What about "nice girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387 "2005-08-03T02:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/21 "2005-08-03T15:08:03Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Nice Girl is synonymous with doormat, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s that simple. Sure some people are always doormats for everyone else. But more often than anybody wants to admit, aren’t we a doormat for this \*one person \* at some point in our life? ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/22 "2005-08-03T15:09:07Z")
Nope, I’m a complete bitch with everyone. It’s much simpler that way, you see. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/23 "2005-08-03T15:37:42Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > What do Nice Guys, in your experience, do when a woman they are not attracted to flirts with them? Us “asshole guys” generally try to have sex with them too. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/24 "2005-08-03T15:45:00Z")
**VCO3** hit it on the head. You don’t hear Nice Girls whining about their situation in life because they have no problems getting guys. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/25 "2005-08-03T15:55:32Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m not sure what to call it, but I think the female equivalent is the type who asks you if she’s fat, and if you say no, she keeps on insisting you be honest, and finally you give up in disgust and say, “Yes, all right, you’re fat!” > > And then she bursts into tears and says you don’t love her and blah blah blah. She wants you to read her mind constantly. If she’s upset, and you notice, and ask her what’s up, she’ll say nothing, she doesn’t want to talk about it. But if you honor that wish, she pouts because you didn’t press her and INSIST on finding out what’s bothering her. She never tells you anything straight out-you’re supposed to KNOW without being told-anything from her favorite flower to her cat’s birthday. And if you don’t do these things, you’re a horrible pig. > > You can’t win-if you say, “No, I didn’t look at that girl,” you’re a liar. If you admit, “Yeah, I was just looking at her,” she freaks out and insists you don’t love her. > > I guess you could call her Contrary Girl. Hey Guin! Bite yer tongue, that’s mah wife yer talkin’ about! ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/26 "2005-08-03T15:59:08Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > **VCO3** hit it on the head. You don’t hear Nice Girls whining about their situation in life because they have no problems getting guys. So…the nice guys don’t get the girls for whatever reason and whine about it, the nice girls settle for the jerk who hits on her constantly and settles for it. But where are all the bad girl sluts in this model? . . . . . . . . . No, seriously, where are they? My entire weekend is free. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/27 "2005-08-03T16:07:51Z")
I have to dissagree with most of the posters, there is a “nice girl” type out there - they appear to repel men (nice and otherwise) just as well as any nice guy can repel women. This is what most have in common - Not but ugly, but on the plain side. Usually over weight and don’t wear make-up or dress in a way that flatters what they do have. Trash men a lot, hold them in contempt. Say lots of things like - “If the husband and wife have different versions of what happened, always believe the wife. Men are clueless.” Don’t go out anywhere in an attempt to meet men. If a guy doesn’t talk 'em up after church, they’re never going to cross paths. Complain ALL THE G\*DDAMN TIME about the fact they can’t find, meet, or date men. Usually say they could find jerks at a bar, or guys who want “just one thing”, but nobody who wants to go out with nice women (like them). Off the top of my head, I can think of 6 women I’ve worked with that fit that description. Perhaps they’re getting something on the side and not telling anyone, but I seriously doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Tonya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/4491bb/32.png) [@Queen\_Tonya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Tonya)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/28 "2005-08-03T16:31:00Z")
What about the code of ‘nice girl’ used similarly to ‘good personality’ to describe someone with less than stellar looks? As in “You should go out with my neighbor/roommate/cousin, she’s a nice girl.” ---
**Author:** ![Jennyrosity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@Jennyrosity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jennyrosity)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/29 "2005-08-03T16:40:02Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > Yes, there is a version of the nice girl, and yes, I have fallen into that category for far too long, though I have, in the past few years, clawed my way out of that pit. > > The nice girl sits quietly, wistfully thinking about the guy she likes, and probably manages to completely miss the guy who is interested in her. The nice girl goes out with guys who are broken - not in a Bad Boy sort of way, but in a “oh, the poor dear, no one understands him. Only I can help him” sort of way. There’s a lot of mother henning around a nice girl. She will spend all her time and energy making things better for other people and not take care of herself. She usually falls prey to men who aren’t out-and-out bad, but they are parasitic. The nice girl is the one who works two jobs to pay the rent while her boyfriend/husband sits at home, unemployed. She allows a lot of people to use her, and while she may complain bitterly to friends, she just never stands up for herself. > > Yep, I was a total nice girl for many years. It mostly stems from very poor self-esteem, the belief that no one would stay with you if you weren’t constantly giving to them. These days, I’ve gone pretty far in the other direction and shy away from men who show any sign of neediness, indecision, or ambiguity. Which is a whole 'nother kettle of problems. Aargh, aargh, aargh, that’s ME! Or at least it was, till I met **Crusoe** , who’s not in the least bit parasitic and wants to take care of me as much as I want to take care of him. Strangely though, I didn’t identify with the thread title at all and wouldn’t have ever thought of myself as a “Nice Girl”. But that description fits me to a “T”. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/30 "2005-08-03T16:41:39Z")
> [@Long Time First Time](#): > > I have to dissagree with most of the posters, there is a “nice girl” type out there - they appear to repel men (nice and otherwise) just as well as any nice guy can repel women. > > This is what most have in common - > > Not but ugly, but on the plain side. Usually over weight and don’t wear make-up or dress in a way that flatters what they do have. > > Trash men a lot, hold them in contempt. Say lots of things like - “If the husband and wife have different versions of what happened, always believe the wife. Men are clueless.” > > Don’t go out anywhere in an attempt to meet men. If a guy doesn’t talk 'em up after church, they’re never going to cross paths. > > Complain ALL THE G\*DDAMN TIME about the fact they can’t find, meet, or date men. Usually say they could find jerks at a bar, or guys who want “just one thing”, but nobody who wants to go out with nice women (like them). > Off the top of my head, I can think of 6 women I’ve worked with that fit that description. Perhaps they’re getting something on the side and not telling anyone, but I seriously doubt it. Given the standard use of the term Nice Guy, this is the closest female equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/31 "2005-08-03T16:48:35Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You forgot to mension a great rack and a set of gams that go all the way up to her neck. 😃 And the fact that she turns into a 6-pack anda pizza after midnight. But I thought all of that was just a given. ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/32 "2005-08-03T17:39:39Z")
The term Nice Girl is somewhat problematic, because it has different connotations than Nice Guy. In my experience, a Nice Girl is looked on as a good thing, and there isn’t any implication of dysfunction. She’d be loving, stable, and possibly a good mother; someone appropriate for the phrase “You should find a nice girl and settle down.” She’s pretty much the opposite of the wild, slutty bad girl that men find enticing. However, as an analogue to the Nice Guy, the term Nice Girl would be defined differently. I’d say they’re both people who can give too much without asking enough in return. They’ll be your best friend and advise you on all your relationships with jerky men or slutty women, all the while wishing that you’d notice them, but not doing anything about it because being aggressive wouldn’t be “nice.” They’ll privately bemoan the fact that all women want assholes, or all men want trashy ho’s, and no one notices the “nice” people. There’s also the scary Nice Guy, who pulls out the two dozen roses and string quartet on the second date. He thinks he’s being romantic, and not being like those jerks who just want sex, when in fact the woman might have gone for a quick shag but the over-the-top romance screams “commitment” with someone she barely knows so she runs away. The female analogue I guess would be the woman who starts picking out china patterns on the second date; she’s equally terrifying. Both of them just don’t understand how people work; that too much too soon scares people. However, the Nice Guy is confused by the stereotype that women want romance, but it doesn’t seem to work for him, while the Nice Girl simply reaffirms the stereotype that men are afraid of commitment. Both Nice Guy and Nice Girl are probably fairly clueless when it comes to recognizing people hitting on them. Both are probably chasing unrealistic goals, as well; they both want an unattainable partner and don’t have eyes for the average folks around them. Nice Girls tend to be, on average, less attractive than Nice Guys. This is simply because the better looking Nice Girls get chased by men and eventually work things out, whereas the better looking Nice Guys can wallow in their misery forever. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/33 "2005-08-03T17:40:07Z")
> [@UrbanChic](#): > > Nice Girl is synonymous with doormat, in my opinion. Yep, mine too. I’m quoting someone else, but men don’t love weak women, they use weak women. If being used is close enough to being needed that it satisfies your needs, you may be a Nice Girl. I would guess that you don’t hear from Nice Girls because they tend to hook up with abusive, controlling men (agressive or not) who subsequently isolate them from outside contact. Or I could just be projecting here. I was a Nice Girl, once. After therapy, several very patient friends, and time, I beat it too. I’ve had two healthy relationships since then, so it can be done, but I still wince when I see a girl being “Nice”. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/34 "2005-08-03T17:42:22Z")
The Nice Guy/Girl[sup]TM[/sup], for whatever reason, is not particularly attractive to members of the gender they wish to attract. But rather than attempting to change him/herself to be more attractive, the Nice Guy/Girl[sup]TM[/sup] whines and blames the pool of potential partners, often expressing contempt for them and further alienating them with a hostile attitude. As Paula Poundstone once said, “It’s a damn shame that being desperate and lonely doesn’t make us more attractive.” ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/35 "2005-08-03T18:16:22Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > And the fact that she turns into a 6-pack anda pizza after midnight. > > But I thought all of that was just a given. This is not witty or clever; it is sexist and insulting. You’re saying to women, “I have such contempt for you as a human being that as soon as I’m through fucking you, I hope you turn in to an inanimate object.” How do you expect a woman to take that? If you didn’t mean it, why say it, when it’s so obviously insulting? I never found this type of remark funny; if I had, they would’ve stopped being funny after about the 20,000th time. This type of remark expresses contempt for women, period. If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/36 "2005-08-03T18:25:01Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > This is not witty or clever; it is sexist and insulting. You’re saying to women, “I have such contempt for you as a human being that as soon as I’m through fucking you, I hope you turn in to an inanimate object.” How do you expect a woman to take that? If you didn’t mean it, why say it, when it’s so obviously insulting? I never found this type of remark funny; if I had, they would’ve stopped being funny after about the 20,000th time. This type of remark expresses contempt for women, period. > > If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. Is this a whoosh? I thought Inigo’s comment was funny enough to earn a smile from me, and wholly appropriate to a thread dealing with male/female stereotypes. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/37 "2005-08-03T18:25:28Z")
> [@Sengkelat](#): > > The term Nice Girl is somewhat problematic, because it has different connotations than Nice Guy. In my experience, a Nice Girl is looked on as a good thing, and there isn’t any implication of dysfunction. She’d be loving, stable, and possibly a good mother; someone appropriate for the phrase “You should find a nice girl and settle down.” She’s pretty much the opposite of the wild, slutty bad girl that men find enticing. > . > . > . > Nice Girls tend to be, on average, less attractive than Nice Guys. This is simply because the better looking Nice Girls get chased by men and eventually work things out, whereas the better looking Nice Guys can wallow in their misery forever. **Sengkelat** , I think you summed things up just perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/38 "2005-08-03T18:26:08Z")
I think it was just a joke. Not particularly funny, but not offensive either. Hell, I’d say the same thing about the perfect guy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/39 "2005-08-03T18:26:15Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. Take a breath. Scroll up a bit further. Read. Keep the words “in context” and “tongue in cheek” in mind. Or not. Feel free to be shrill and unreasonable if it works for you. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/40 "2005-08-03T19:02:22Z")
In one iteration of my online dating profile, I referred to myself as “a nice person, but not a nice girl.” That line didn’t stay in there long, though, because of the kind of room for interpretation of “nice girl” that is evidenced in this thread. 🙂 What I meant by it was: I like my fellow humans and I do my best to be kind, thoughtful, sensitive, etc., but I’m not going to smother you, I’m hardly ever demure, I am candid and open-minded about sex, I have two un-trendy tattoos, etc. Sometimes I feel like women get put into one of two groups, either jaded man-haters or naïve sweet things (unlike some other posters, I don’t think that physical attractiveness has anything to do with it). “Nice person but not a nice girl” was my attempt at letting potential dates know up-front that I don’t fit neatly into any predefined categories. (I’m not a “bad girl,” either, which is another reason that line didn’t stay in my profile for long. \) In short, I agree with what **Long Time First Time** wrote. > [@laina\_f](#): > > If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. Yeah, what everyone else said. Get a grip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=3)