# Enough about "nice guys." What about "nice girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387 "2005-08-03T02:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/41 "2005-08-03T19:16:01Z")
You’ve hit on something **Misnomer**. “Nice” guy/girl has a bad connotation in a sense that it automatically projects a picture of a door mat personality. “Bad” boy/girl has a somewhat desireable (if not actually “good”) connotation. A bad boy is obviously a James Dean-ish type that virtually every girl is attracted to on some level. While the same is true for a bad girl image, as in, virtually every guy wants to spend at least a little quality time with the right sort of bad girl. So nice is bad, but bad is good. Hmmm… No wonder relationships are so damn hard. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/42 "2005-08-03T19:23:14Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > One of the hallmarks of Nice Guys is contempt for the opposite sex and whoever they’ve chosen to date rather than the Nice Guy. Witness: > > “I’m too nice to get a date because all women like to date assholes.” > “She wouldn’t go out with me again because I’m too nice and she didn’t appreciate the four dozen roses and the string quartet I surprised her with on our second date.” > “Women date assholes, and then once they’re done with that, they settle for nice guys.” (Example from a previous Nice Guy thread) > > What would be the Nice Girl equivalent to this attitude? Maybe the “all men are selfish, sexist pigs?” type? The reason I used Contrary Girl instead of Nice Girl is that the Nice Guy Phenonmenon isn’t really about a guy who just happens to be nice and friendly. It’s about a specific type of guys who call themselves Nice and think that their whole problem is that they’re a “Nice Guy”. Most of these types are NOT “nice” at all. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/43 "2005-08-03T19:46:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Take a breath. Scroll up a bit further. Read. Keep the words “in context” and “tongue in cheek” in mind. > > Or not. > > Feel free to be shrill and unreasonable if it works for you. I was offended by **Inigo** ’s post. I did not insult **Inigo** ; I simply stated I found his remark offesive. You, on the other hand, have chosen to insult me. If your opinion differs from mine, then feel free to give your opinion. The purpose of this forum, which is called **IN MY HUMBLE OPINION** , is to express opinions. If you need to insult me, then take it to the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/44 "2005-08-03T19:51:09Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > What I meant by it was: I like my fellow humans and I do my best to be kind, thoughtful, sensitive, etc., but I’m not going to smother you, I’m hardly ever demure, I am candid and open-minded about sex, I have two un-trendy tattoos, etc. Sometimes I feel like women get put into one of two groups, either jaded man-haters or naïve sweet things (unlike some other posters, I don’t think that physical attractiveness has anything to do with it). “Nice person but not a nice girl” was my attempt at letting potential dates know up-front that I don’t fit neatly into any predefined categories. (I’m not a “bad girl,” either, which is another reason that line didn’t stay in my profile for long. \) And you’re single?? Damn it, I’m a girl. I keep forgetting. :smack: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/45 "2005-08-03T20:14:13Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > **VCO3** hit it on the head. You don’t hear Nice Girls whining about their situation in life because they have no problems getting guys. Sure you do. These are the girls who can’t find a guy who want’s to settle down in a long term relationship. Most non-repulsive girls can go to any bar to get laid (even the ugly ones can go after 3am if they’re really desperate). Finding a decent long-term guy is more difficult. > [@laina\_f](#): > > > [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > > > And the fact that she turns into a 6-pack anda pizza after midnight. > > > > But I thought all of that was just a given. > > This is not witty or clever; it is sexist and insulting. You’re saying to women, “I have such contempt for you as a human being that as soon as I’m through fucking you, I hope you turn in to an inanimate object.” How do you expect a woman to take that? If you didn’t mean it, why say it, when it’s so obviously insulting? I never found this type of remark funny; if I had, they would’ve stopped being funny after about the 20,000th time. This type of remark expresses contempt for women, period. Maybe because a six pack and a pizza don’t yell at you for trying to be funny? What are you so upset about? I know some guys need to have that element of shrill nagging and nitpicking in their life, but there are a crazy few who just want sex. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/46 "2005-08-03T20:43:05Z")
You know, if done properly, shrill nagging and nitpicking can be foreplay. > [@laina\_f](#): > > This is not witty or clever; it is sexist and insulting. Well, you’re half right. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/47 "2005-08-03T20:44:15Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. I thought it was hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/48 "2005-08-03T20:58:41Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > I think it was just a joke. Not particularly funny, but not offensive either. > > Hell, I’d say the same thing about the perfect guy. 😃 Gams all the way up to his neck? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/49 "2005-08-03T21:03:36Z")
I found it a bit amusing; more amusing than **laina\_f** ’s shrill histrionics anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/50 "2005-08-03T21:15:21Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > This is not witty or clever; it is sexist and insulting. You’re saying to women, “I have such contempt for you as a human being that as soon as I’m through fucking you, I hope you turn in to an inanimate object.” How do you expect a woman to take that? If you didn’t mean it, why say it, when it’s so obviously insulting? I never found this type of remark funny; if I had, they would’ve stopped being funny after about the 20,000th time. This type of remark expresses contempt for women, period. > > If any women reading this find **Inigo** ’s remark humorous, please speak up. Steady there, **laina\_f**. **Inigo** ’s just quoting a very old joke which no-one ever takes literally. Btw, I find your insistence on calling only for \*women’\*s opinions offensive and sexist, since you clearly don’t value men’s opinions… In My Humble Opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/51 "2005-08-03T21:33:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Steady there, **laina\_f**. **Inigo** ’s just quoting a very old joke which no-one ever takes literally. > > Btw, I find your insistence on calling only for \*women’\*s opinions offensive and sexist, since you clearly don’t value men’s opinions… In My Humble Opinion. 1. Stop condescending to me. I have a right to my opinion. 2. It’s not true that _no-one_ takes the “joke” literally. I am one person who thinks that someone who makes gratuitous sexist remarks is indeed a sexist, with the corresponding bad attitude toward women. 3. I asked for women’s opinions; I did not call for _only_ women’s opinions. Your statement that I clearly don’t value men’s opinions is baseless and uncalled for. 4. Why is it not possible for y’all to express your opinions without resorting to putdowns, condescension and insults? ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/52 "2005-08-03T21:40:52Z")
You can be a nice girl and still be ravishingly gorgeous AND sexy! I know because I am! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/53 "2005-08-03T21:43:39Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > 1. Stop condescending to me. I have a right to my opinion. > 2. It’s not true that no-one takes the “joke” literally. I am one person who thinks that someone who makes gratuitous sexist remarks is indeed a sexist, with the corresponding bad attitude toward women. > 3. I asked for women’s opinions; I did not call for only women’s opinions. Your statement that I clearly don’t value men’s opinions is baseless and uncalled for. > 4. Why is it not possible for y’all to express your opinions without resorting to putdowns, condescension and insults? 1. The right to an opinion does not imply the right to be taken seriously. 2. Sorry, let me rephrase: no-one who isn’t a candidate for a sense of humour bypass takes the very old “six pack and a pizza” joke seriously. YMMV. 3. You call for women’s opinions, you don’t call for men’s opinions. By implication and applying your own standards of humourlessness, you don’t value men’s opinions and, by extension, men as people. 4. Why is it not possible for y’all to express your opinions without resorting to a numbered list of them? Plus, show me where I put down, condescended, or insulted. Sorry, but now you’re just asking to be mocked mercilessly. You were the first to mention the Pit. Bring it on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/54 "2005-08-03T21:46:29Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > You can be a nice girl and still be ravishingly gorgeous AND sexy! I know because I am! I’ve always wanted to marry an English woman and move to London. 😃 > [@Misnomer](#): > > In one iteration of my online dating profile, I referred to myself as “a nice person, but not a nice girl.” For some reason this reminds me of Wall of Voodoo’s _Can’t Make Love_. _I’m a nice guy, but I don’t Love you I just want to sleep with you…_ ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/55 "2005-08-03T21:47:02Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > 1. Stop condescending to me. I have a right to my opinion. > 2. It’s not true that _no-one_ takes the “joke” literally. I am one person who thinks that someone who makes gratuitous sexist remarks is indeed a sexist, with the corresponding bad attitude toward women. > 3. I asked for women’s opinions; I did not call for _only_ women’s opinions. Your statement that I clearly don’t value men’s opinions is baseless and uncalled for. > 4. Why is it not possible for y’all to express your opinions without resorting to putdowns, condescension and insults? 1. And it’s the opinion of some posters that you’ve over-reacted. 2. Please go back and check the context in which it was written. It was said tongue in cheek and with a clear note of sarcasm. In other words, making fun of the stereotype, not perpetuating it. 3. If you didn’t mean “only women’s opinion” why ask for “women’s opinion”? In what world of are “women” a gray area when the other choice is clearly not women. Now you’re just being disingenuous. 4. 'Cuz you’ve over-reacted. Way over-reacted. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/56 "2005-08-03T21:49:39Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > You can be a nice girl and still be ravishingly gorgeous AND sexy! I know because I am! I’m sorry, but you can’t expect us to just take your word for such a patently circular argument. CITE?!?! ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/57 "2005-08-03T21:52:10Z")
“Nice girls”? An oxymoron, I say! ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/58 "2005-08-03T22:44:10Z")
> [@laina\_f](#): > > 1. It’s not true that _no-one_ takes the “joke” literally. I am one person who thinks that someone who makes gratuitous sexist remarks is indeed a sexist, with the corresponding bad attitude toward women. This is a genuine question, I’m not trying to be snarky or anything. I make gratutitous sexist remarks about women all the damn time, am I sexist? (I’m a woman btw. One who likes driving and voting and going to school and all that jazz). Bak to the topic, I consider myself a “nice girl” and guys seem to like it. I believe it was my hairdresser who once said, “Diosa, men want one thing: a woman who in public is the preacher’s daughter, but in bed is the whore nextdoor.” It’s true. I don’t drink. I don’t really “party”. I don’t do drugs. I don’t go out much (I much prefer reading and such). I’m not the wild and crazy college student type. Yet, I get hit on all the time and have no problem getting dates with all the “bad” boys and such. Perhaps women go for the “bad boy” because he is different in a world of “good boys”. In a world of drunken college sluts, the “good girl” stands out. Just my experience. ---
**Author:** ![MaddyStrut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@MaddyStrut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaddyStrut)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2005, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/59 "2005-08-03T23:35:50Z")
> [@Fionn](#): > > One of the hallmarks of Nice Guys is contempt for the opposite sex and whoever they’ve chosen to date rather than the Nice Guy. Witness: > > “I’m too nice to get a date because all women like to date assholes.” > “She wouldn’t go out with me again because I’m too nice and she didn’t appreciate the four dozen roses and the string quartet I surprised her with on our second date.” > “Women date assholes, and then once they’re done with that, they settle for nice guys.” (Example from a previous Nice Guy thread) > > What would be the Nice Girl equivalent to this attitude? I have friends who are the female equivalent of the Self Proclaimed Nice Guy (and it is important to distinguish that type from genuinely nice guys). However, they’re not really what I would call “Nice Girls,” and they don’t blame their lack of romatic success on niceness. They choose other things. In college (mid to late 80’s) the common complaint was “I’m too smart; men dont’ like Smart Women–they want bimbos.” I don’t hear this complaint so much anymore. I hope it’s myth that’s been debunked. I do still hear “I’m too strong and independent; men don’t want to date a Strong Woman–they want a weak little dormat.” In almost every case, it wasn’t/isn’t a matter of the woman being too smart or too strong. There are a variety of other factors (including going after the wrong guys; aiming out of their league; having a really negative, bitter, whiney attitude; being incredibly desparate; or sometimes just bad luck), but try telling them that! ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/60 "2005-08-04T01:29:49Z")
I thought the beer-and-a-six-pack thing was a sharper jab at the stereotypical boorish macho mentality than sexist towards _women_ but what the hell would I know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=4)