# Enough about "nice guys." What about "nice girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387 "2005-08-03T02:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/61 "2005-08-04T01:31:04Z")
Pizza and a six pack. :smack: I have liquor on my mind apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/62 "2005-08-04T02:10:55Z")
> [@Harimad-sol](#): > > And you’re single?? That’s sweet, thanks! (I’d use the “embarrassed” smiley if it didn’t look so much like an orange snowman giving a blowjob…) > [@laina\_f](#): > > I am one person who thinks that someone who makes gratuitous sexist remarks is indeed a sexist What, so _now_ it’s ok for you to insult **Inigo**? Not on _my_ watch, sister! :mad: 😉 But seriously: you overreacted, you got called on it, and you just keep overreacting. Stop now, take your lumps like a grownup, and we can all put it behind us and move on … m’kay? > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > For some reason this reminds me of Wall of Voodoo’s Can’t Make Love. Heh! It’s an unfortunate stereotype that “nice girls” don’t appreciate casual sex. People just don’t know what to make of a mature, educated, professional woman who genuinely likes men and never treats them badly but doesn’t need to be “in love” to sex 'em up. > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Yet, I get hit on all the time and have no problem getting dates with all the “bad” boys and such. I didn’t think about it until I read this, but I tend to draw the bad boys, too. And not pretenders to the throne: drug dealers and addicts, alcoholics, ex cons, high school dropouts, etc. In my 20s I definitely dated my share, but now that I’m in my 30s I don’t run across that type much anymore. I’m sure if I did, I’d have more luck with them than I do with these white-collar guys. 😉 > [@MaddyStrut](#): > > I do still hear “I’m too strong and independent; men don’t want to date a Strong Woman–they want a weak little dormat.” I have one particular friend who talks like that frequently … makes me roll my eyes every time. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/63 "2005-08-04T02:47:39Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > I have friends who are the female equivalent of the Self Proclaimed Nice Guy (and it is important to distinguish that type from genuinely nice guys). However, they’re not really what I would call “Nice Girls,” and they don’t blame their lack of romatic success on niceness. They choose other things. > > In college (mid to late 80’s) the common complaint was “I’m too smart; men dont’ like Smart Women–they want bimbos.” I don’t hear this complaint so much anymore. I hope it’s myth that’s been debunked. > > I do still hear “I’m too strong and independent; men don’t want to date a Strong Woman–they want a weak little dormat.” > > In almost every case, it wasn’t/isn’t a matter of the woman being too smart or too strong. There are a variety of other factors (including going after the wrong guys; aiming out of their league; having a really negative, bitter, whiney attitude; being incredibly desparate; or sometimes just bad luck), but try telling them that! Actually, that’s the opposite of what I’ve seen - the one difference I’d put between the Nice Guys and Nice Girls is that while the Nice Guys tend to blame women for their lack of romantic success, the Nice Girls tend to blame themselves. Not that either approach works, but it is a slight difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/64 "2005-08-04T02:55:04Z")
I think that girls are more tricked by bad guys than guys are by bad girls. Dudes just want sex from a bad girl. Guys would only have a real relationship with a nice girl. At least that is what it is like with me. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/65 "2005-08-04T03:00:10Z")
I love this board because I can actually ask this question instead of getting that weird glazed-eye look people give me in person. Well, maybe it’s the fact that I’m the one asking the question that gets the look. After nigh on twenty-seven years of it, you’d think I’d have it figured out. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/66 "2005-08-04T09:32:24Z")
> [@amarinth](#): > > Actually, that’s the opposite of what I’ve seen - the one difference I’d put between the Nice Guys and Nice Girls is that while the Nice Guys tend to blame women for their lack of romantic success, the Nice Girls tend to blame themselves. Not that either approach works, but it is a slight difference. hehheh, at least they can all agree that it’s the woman’s fault. Seriously, though, I think **MaddyStrut** nailed it. I was going to post the same thing until I read her post. Honestly, I was surprised it didn’t come up until the second page. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/67 "2005-08-04T10:42:58Z")
Interesting comments. I’ve got a question, in a similar vein… I’m a woman and I find guys -very- hard to figure out. Many comments here say that nice girls are too passive… HOWEVER… in my limited observation and experience, guys are turned off by attention and interest. How do you balance that without appearing too passive or disinterested? The most winning strategy that I’ve observed is to date around, and act as if you’re having trouble picking between guys. Drives 'em nuts. But I refuse to play games… period. That being said, there’s no need to distinguish between “nice girl” and “nice guy”. Last I heard, jellyfish don’t have genders. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/68 "2005-08-04T11:05:50Z")
I think the distinction between Nice Guys/Girls and nice guys/girls is valid. Nice Guys/Girls are those passive-aggressive types that we know so well from all the “why do Nice Guys always finish last” threads. On the other hand, nice guys and girls are just the genuinely friendly, helpful souls who would bend over backwards to do a favour for a friend but are ultimately clueless about the how to attract and return romantic interest. A Nice Girl will have read “the Rules” and follows it exactly, and she’ll be sitting by the phone drumming her fingers on the Wednesday night after a date. A nice girl will be sitting by the phone biting her nails every night after the date, wondering if the guy liked her or not. My only relationship advice to people is that if you’re meant to be together it should be easy…even when it’s hard, it’ll feel easy. If it feels like hard work to even organise a date, it’s not working. Example…for the first 18 months of my relationship with my guy we lived in different countries, saw each other every 3 months and were only able to phone each other every 2 or 3 days. None of it felt like hard work; it was worth it because we loved each other, it worked because we felt it was worth it. The relationship before that, I was living in the same city as the guy and saw him every day, and just sitting across a table from him was exhausting. All relationships require work, but if it feels like hard labour, it’s not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/69 "2005-08-04T11:21:23Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I’ve always wanted to marry an English woman and move to London. 😃 > > For some reason this reminds me of Wall of Voodoo’s _Can’t Make Love_. > > _I’m a nice guy, but I don’t > Love you > I just want to sleep with you…_ tee hee…well hello there Johnny! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/70 "2005-08-04T11:23:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I’m sorry, but you can’t expect us to just take your word for such a patently circular argument. > > CITE?!?! Quicksilver my darling…its ABSOLUTELY true! Every single inch of me! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/71 "2005-08-04T11:43:57Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > In almost every case, it wasn’t/isn’t a matter of the woman being too smart or too strong. There are a variety of other factors (including going after the wrong guys; aiming out of their league; having a really negative, bitter, whiney attitude; being incredibly desparate; or sometimes just bad luck), but try telling them that! Ok, what exactly is aiming out of their league? Who is to decide that other than the two people involved? I don’t want to be rude, seriously… I’m just curious about that part. I ask because friends have sometimes tried to set me up with someone or made comments about how another guy and I would make such a good couple, when in fact that guy, while a good person, is the last one I’d date. Also, I feel (perhaps by watching shows and movies) that “out of their league” usually means someone that is (considered) more handsome than they are. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/72 "2005-08-04T12:16:59Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Ok, what exactly is aiming out of their league? Who is to decide that other than the two people involved? It’s a fairly well docmented social phenomenon that people generally stay within their own “league”. For lack of a better example or better measure let’s just use the silly scale of 1 to 10. Twos don’t usually date eights. Most people tend to date within the same range or a point or two higher than their own place on the scale. On the rare occasion you’ll find a really attractive person with one far less attractive so these are not hard and fast rules and nobody get’s arrested for breaking them. But if we’re talking on a large social scale with a huge sample, they largely hold true. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/73 "2005-08-04T12:53:18Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It’s a fairly well docmented social phenomenon that people generally stay within their own “league”. For lack of a better example or better measure let’s just use the silly scale of 1 to 10. Twos don’t usually date eights. Most people tend to date within the same range or a point or two higher than their own place on the scale. On the rare occasion you’ll find a really attractive person with one far less attractive so these are not hard and fast rules and nobody get’s arrested for breaking them. But if we’re talking on a large social scale with a huge sample, they largely hold true. You’ve seen UltraChrist!. > [@dre2xl](#): > > The most winning strategy that I’ve observed is to date around, and act as if you’re having trouble picking between guys. Drives 'em nuts. But I refuse to play games… period. And the unintentional irony of the year award goes to… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/74 "2005-08-04T13:39:19Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > Interesting comments. I’ve got a question, in a similar vein… I’m a woman and I find guys -very- hard to figure out. Ar? 😕 As a guy, I think we’re pretty simple. (Double entendre intended.) > [@dre2xl](#): > > Many comments here say that nice girls are too passive… HOWEVER… in my limited observation and experience, guys are turned off by attention and interest. How do you balance that without appearing too passive or disinterested? I don’t think so. I think ‘alpha males’ might take attention and interest as a sign of their machismo. Non-‘alpha males’, I think, also get an ego boost from attention and interest. I know that I would be flattered. Of course, if I were in a relationship I wouldn’t act on advances from another woman; but I’d still be flattered. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/75 "2005-08-04T13:43:45Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > tee hee…well hello there Johnny! 😃 Erm… Are you chatting me up? 😕 😉 Seriously, though. I’ve always thought it would be fun to open a Cal-Mex restaurant in London. And my partner agrees that it would be fun to move the video studio to London instead of L.A. We’d have to change get PAL cameras though. ---
**Author:** ![dre2xl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/34f0e0/32.png) [@dre2xl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dre2xl)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/76 "2005-08-04T17:54:37Z")
**CandidGamera** , I have never attempted that strategy, I just noted that it worked. Flashing money & flattery will drive women crazy, too, particularly if the woman has self-esteem issues (which goes for just about every young woman today). YMMV. _shrugs_ But, yeah, **irishgirl** is right. The compatiable guy (or girl) doesn’t need a strategy. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/77 "2005-08-04T17:57:18Z")
> [@dre2xl](#): > > **CandidGamera** , I have never attempted that strategy, I just noted that it worked. Flashing money & flattery will drive women crazy, too, particularly if the woman has self-esteem issues (which goes for just about every young woman today). YMMV. _shrugs_ Sorry, I misread your statement to suggest that you’d employed that selfsame strategy. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Sengkelat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Sengkelat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sengkelat)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/78 "2005-08-04T18:26:19Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > “Diosa, men want one thing: a woman who in public is the preacher’s daughter, but in bed is the whore nextdoor.” If my woman is being a whore in bed, I do _not_ want her to be next door at the time! > [@KarlGrenze](#): > > Ok, what exactly is aiming out of their league? Who is to decide that other than the two people involved? I agree with you in principle, but if you’ve decided to chase after someone who everyone is attracted to, you have a much smaller chance of success than if you’re chasing someone who is less desirable. The people who are highly desirable of course have to date _someone_, but they’ll choose the most desirable of their suitors, and thus it sorts itself on down the line. Of course, human attraction is both subjective and measured on many different facets of a person, so it doesn’t happen with mathematical precision. I think the point is if I insist on dating a wealthy supermodel astrophysicist\* I’m just going to end up disappointed. Everyone wants to date the most desirable people, but they have to be realistic about what’s actually available to them. - Who turns into pizza and beer, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/79 "2005-08-04T19:39:06Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Erm… Are you chatting me up? 😕 > > 😉 > > Seriously, though. I’ve always thought it would be fun to open a Cal-Mex restaurant in London. And my partner agrees that it would be fun to move the video studio to London instead of L.A. We’d have to change get PAL cameras though. Me??? Chatting you up??? Im far too much of a ‘NICE GIRL’ to do that Johnny! 🙂 MMMM…a Cal-Mex restaurant in London??? If I promise to behave, do I get to sample the food beore you open to the public!!! Who cooks you or your partner? (just so I know who to stay on the right side of you understand! ) 🙂 Now where did I put that property magazine… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2005, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/80 "2005-08-04T20:16:53Z")
> [@MaddyStrut](#): > > In college (mid to late 80’s) the common complaint was “I’m too smart; men dont’ like Smart Women–they want bimbos.” I don’t hear this complaint so much anymore. I hope it’s myth that’s been debunked. > > I do still hear “I’m too strong and independent; men don’t want to date a Strong Woman–they want a weak little dormat.” > > In almost every case, it wasn’t/isn’t a matter of the woman being too smart or too strong. There are a variety of other factors (including going after the wrong guys; aiming out of their league; having a really negative, bitter, whiney attitude; being incredibly desparate; or sometimes just bad luck), but try telling them that! Oh god, yes, that type. A friend of mine in high school has been saying this ever since I’ve known her. She’s in her mid-30s and still hasn’t had anything resembling an even semi-long-term serious relationship (i.e., one that wasn’t just the guy looking for some sex, only to dump her later); meanwhile she blithely tries to sabotage the relationships of friends and even her own sister if the guy isn’t exactly perfect, by saying vicious things about the guy and talking behind his back, trying to poison the woman against him. As for her own relationships, I can pretty much point to her overbearing manner, arrogance, affectations in behavior, and backbiting tendencies as to why guys don’t want to be in a relationship with her. (Hell, one guy merely turned her down when she asked him out, and she ended up making nasty anti-Semitic and other comments about him afterwards, up to a year or more later. Major danger sign for men who hear that!) (FTR, I’m a strong woman but not a Strong Woman, using this terminology…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=5)