# Enough about "nice guys." What about "nice girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387 "2005-08-03T02:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/101 "2005-08-06T16:36:49Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Psst! People are starting to talk! We should meet secretly, lest we cause a scandal. šŸ™‚ Oh dearā€¦ now whatā€™s a NICE GIRL supposed to say to that?! ā€˜Iā€™ll bring the wine if you bring the Cal-Mexā€™?! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Arianne\_aka\_Hey\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Arianne\_aka\_Hey\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arianne_aka_Hey_You)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/102 "2005-08-07T01:17:30Z")
If any women reading this find **Inigo** ā€™s remark humorous, please speak up. [/QUOTE] I thought that was hilarious! Of course, I didnā€™t take him seriously. šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/103 "2005-08-07T03:24:28Z")
I wasnā€™t blaming you, or anyone else for that matter specifically, **Sensibility** , so no worries. I agree with you for the most part, except that when the term ā€œgood girlā€ is used, people often mean it in a derogatory way. A ā€œgood girlā€ is straitlaced, uptight, perhaps even puritanical, from what Iā€™ve heard. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/104 "2005-08-07T09:12:21Z")
> [@Harimad-sol](#): > > I wasnā€™t blaming you, or anyone else for that matter specifically, **Sensibility** , so no worries. I agree with you for the most part, except that when the term ā€œgood girlā€ is used, people often mean it in a derogatory way. A ā€œgood girlā€ is straitlaced, uptight, perhaps even puritanical, from what Iā€™ve heard. I agree. To be a ā€˜good girlā€™ is often looked on as a ā€˜bad thingā€™, and there have been many times when I have wondered if STICKING to being a ā€˜good girlā€™ is all its cracked up to be! šŸ˜ƒ There HAVE been times wehn Ive been tempted to think ā€˜oh sod itā€™, just enjoy yourself, what does it matter what anyone ELSE thinks, BUT, I tend to end up reminding myself that in order to be a ā€˜bad girlā€™ I wouldnt just have to change the things I did, or didnt do, but would also have to change my attitude to, my belief in and my behavious towards those things too! HUGE changes!! I end up thinking - hang on - do I like who I am and what I stand for? Do I want to change who I am and what I stand for? and rightly or wrongly, the answer keeps coming back the sameā€¦\ā€¦just destined to be a REAL GOOD GIRL!!! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/105 "2005-08-07T18:30:52Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > I agree. To be a ā€˜good girlā€™ is often looked on as a ā€˜bad thingā€™, and there have been many times when I have wondered if STICKING to being a ā€˜good girlā€™ is all its cracked up to be! šŸ˜ƒ > > There HAVE been times wehn Ive been tempted to think ā€˜oh sod itā€™, just enjoy yourself, what does it matter what anyone ELSE thinks, BUT, I tend to end up reminding myself that in order to be a ā€˜bad girlā€™ I wouldnt just have to change the things I did, or didnt do, but would also have to change my attitude to, my belief in and my behavious towards those things too! HUGE changes!! I end up thinking - hang on - do I like who I am and what I stand for? Do I want to change who I am and what I stand for? and rightly or wrongly, the answer keeps coming back the sameā€¦\ā€¦just destined to be a REAL GOOD GIRL!!! šŸ˜ƒ Yesā€¦after all, if it doesnā€™t matter what anyone else thinks, you can be a good girl just as well as a bad one, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/106 "2005-08-07T22:33:37Z")
> [@Harimad-sol](#): > > Yesā€¦after all, if it doesnā€™t matter what anyone else thinks, you can be a good girl just as well as a bad one, right? šŸ™‚ Now theres a thought! šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/107 "2005-08-08T01:46:04Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > šŸ™‚ Now theres a thought! šŸ˜ƒ Well, you have to be yourself, right? Perhaps we could adopt some bad girl trappings, whatever those might be. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/108 "2005-08-09T21:19:53Z")
> [@Harimad-sol](#): > > Well, you have to be yourself, right? > > Perhaps we could adopt some bad girl trappings, whatever those might be. That would confuse the life out of the fellas dont you think? APPEARING to be a bad girl and actually being a ā€˜nice girlā€™ - mixed messages definitely - or appearing to be a ā€˜nice girlā€™ and actually being a ā€˜bad girlā€™? šŸ™‚ Actually, now that I think about it, there are already SOME out there who are EXACTLY that! I dont think the guys have a particularly nice name for them either ! So noā€¦Iā€™ll stick to being a ā€˜nice girlā€™ and then surprise my lucky ā€˜nice guyā€™ with the sexy underwear and naughtyness once Im sure heā€™s worth it! šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/109 "2005-08-10T02:36:05Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > So noā€¦Iā€™ll stick to being a ā€˜nice girlā€™ and then surprise my lucky ā€˜nice guyā€™ with the sexy underwear and naughtyness once Im sure heā€™s worth it! šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ Thatā€™s actually what Iā€™m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/110 "2005-08-10T03:45:16Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > or appearing to be a ā€˜nice girlā€™ and actually being a ā€˜bad girlā€™? šŸ™‚ > > Actually, now that I think about it, there are already SOME out there who are EXACTLY that! I dont think the guys have a particularly nice name for them either ! Does being sweet and likeable and looking like the girl next door but then revealing two tattoos and a fondness for heavy metal music put me in that category? ā˜¹ ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/111 "2005-08-10T12:43:19Z")
> [@Misnomer](#): > > Does being sweet and likeable and looking like the girl next door but then revealing two tattoos and a fondness for heavy metal music put me in that category? ā˜¹ I think most men would think that puts you in the exciting category! šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/112 "2005-08-10T17:31:41Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > So noā€¦Iā€™ll stick to being a ā€˜nice girlā€™ and then surprise my lucky ā€˜nice guyā€™ with the sexy underwear and naughtyness once Im sure heā€™s worth it! šŸ˜ƒšŸ˜ƒ Whatā€™s wrong with nice, soft flannel pyjamas? ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/113 "2005-08-11T08:24:50Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Whatā€™s wrong with nice, soft flannel pyjamas? šŸ˜ƒ Each to their own! šŸ˜ƒ (and they ARE soft and snuggly in winterā€¦!) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/114 "2005-08-11T12:28:02Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Iā€™m a Nice Guy, and I donā€™t hold contempt for women. I rather like them, actually. Same here. In fact I came into this thread thinking that ā€œNice Girlā€ was a description of the last woman I went out with and another I would have liked to have gone out with but it would seem ā€œNice Girlā€ is as derogatory as ā€œNice Guyā€ is somehow šŸ˜• > [@Irishgirl](#): > > On the other hand, nice guys and girls are just the genuinely friendly, helpful souls who would bend over backwards to do a favour for a friend but are ultimately clueless about the how to attract and return romantic interest Thatā€™s the way I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/115 "2005-08-11T12:50:28Z")
Pushkin, yea, those are the real nice onesā€¦ But Iā€™m sure theyā€™re not for the most part those that keep loudly complaining about ā€œWomen only want bad guysā€ or something similar. By irishgirlā€™s definition, I am a nice girl. Do you know how many times Iā€™ve wanted to slap some sense into the guys who start complaining about how the women they like are going with ā€œbad guysā€? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/116 "2005-08-11T13:53:05Z")
Way I see it, there are specific, nonmysterious skills involved in getting into a relationship; theyā€™re related, but not identical, to the skills involved in maintaining a good relationship. Some folks, male and female, intuit these skills; some folk have an older cousin or friend or sibling who teaches these skills; and some folk never pick up on them (or pick up on them very late in life). The latter group, the romantically clueless, are a pitiful bunch, and I mean that literally: having been one of them, I pity them. Many of them blame themselves very viciously for their lack of romantic relationships. There are others, however, who want to blame the rest of the world for their loneliness, and they often do this by claiming that the rest of the world wants them to be something unacceptable in order to get nookie. Nice Guys claim that the rest of the world requires them to be an asshole in order to get sex. As others have suggested, the female equivalent might be the women who claim that the rest of the world wants them to be a doormat in order to get sex. The Nice Guy says that, because heā€™s unwilling to be a jerk, heā€™s single. In reality, itā€™s his unwillingness (or lack of skillfulness) to flirt thatā€™s causing his singlehood. Flirting does not equal assholery. The ā€œNice Girlā€ says that, because sheā€™s unwilling to keep her opinions to herself, sheā€™s single. In reality, itā€™s her unwillingness (or lack of skilfulness) to flirt thatā€™s causing her singlehood. Flirting does not equal doormattery. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/117 "2005-08-11T14:12:27Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > There are others, however, who want to blame the rest of the world for their loneliness, and they often do this by claiming that the rest of the world wants them to be something unacceptable in order to get nookie. Well put! šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/118 "2005-08-11T17:42:53Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > The Nice Guy says that, because heā€™s unwilling to be a jerk, heā€™s single. In reality, itā€™s his unwillingness (or lack of skillfulness) to flirt thatā€™s causing his singlehood. Flirting does not equal assholery See I donā€™t blame anyone else, its just that when I should be flirting I donā€™t know how and when Iā€™m unaware of it I can do it (I had 3 romantic liasons with women from my office that way šŸ˜› ) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/119 "2005-08-11T18:44:26Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Iā€™m a Nice Guy, and I donā€™t hold contempt for women. I rather like them, actually. Hmm, according to what weā€™ve learned from threads like this one, that doesnā€™t compute. (Unless youā€™re just a nice guy and not a NiceGuyā„¢.) I donā€™t hold contempt for women either. My problem is with _men_. The chief reason I donā€™t play the field much anymore is that I have no interest in having to ā€œearnā€ my manhood or living up to anyoneā€™s stereotype of maleness, be it womenā€™s or menā€™s. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/120 "2005-08-11T18:47:55Z")
Link dead. (Search reeeal slow.) The thread I wanted was **SusanStoHelit** ā€™s ā€œIn which I pit Nice Guysā€. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=7)