# Enough about "nice guys." What about "nice girls?" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 3, 2005, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387 "2005-08-03T02:22:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/121 "2005-08-11T19:03:47Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Link dead. (Search reeeal slow.) The thread I wanted was **SusanStoHelit** ’s “In which I pit Nice Guys”. If you page me, I will etc [link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286992) ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/122 "2005-08-11T20:39:29Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Unless you’re just a nice guy and not a NiceGuy™ See, I was never aware of that difference 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/123 "2005-08-11T22:06:03Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > See, I was never aware of that difference 😕 A Nice Guy is just an asshole who calls himself a nice guy (usually within minutes of meeting you). He blame his lack of success with women on- wait for it- WOMEN. They tend to have some traits in common: lack of self-esteem, idealization (is that a word) of women, patronizing behavior, spinelessness, misogyny, etc. For more examples, see [this link](http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml). A nice guy is just a nice… guy… He probably won’t call himself nice. He won’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/124 "2005-08-12T11:44:14Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > See I don’t blame anyone else, its just that when I should be flirting I don’t know how and when I’m unaware of it I can do it (I had 3 romantic liasons with women from my office that way 😛 ) Yeah, I’m drawing the distinction I learned about here, nice guy vs. Nice Guy. The latter category (of misogynist single guys) clearly exists. You’re just a clueless guy. I’m married, and I’ve got no problem flirting with my wife, but I’m still pretty clueless on the flirting front otherwise; your description of when you can and cannot flirt perfectly describes how I was in my single days. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/125 "2005-08-12T20:22:31Z")
Blimey - and you expect us women not to be confused??? I still cant tell when some of you are flirting and when you’re not! Or more to the point, whether its just a game or serious! In the one breath its all talk of how sexy you look and how incredible you are, and then in the next its not, focus has changed - then for no visible, notable reason, its back to the original…?? any clues you males?? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/126 "2005-08-12T21:38:57Z")
No real clues, **Sensibility** ; I would say you should just flirt with the ones you want to, and maybe between the two of you, you can get things sorted out. But still, nothing is foolproof. I was carrying a torch for a woman I worked with. I made a completely unmistakable gesture; nobody could have not noticed that I was asking her out. She didn’t notice. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/127 "2005-08-13T15:53:07Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > No real clues, **Sensibility** ; I would say you should just flirt with the ones you want to, and maybe between the two of you, you can get things sorted out. > > But still, nothing is foolproof. I was carrying a torch for a woman I worked with. I made a completely unmistakable gesture; nobody could have not noticed that I was asking her out. She didn’t notice. How did it all get so confusing eh?? 🙂 I suppose we all avoid being COMPLETELY direct because we dont like rejection and dont want to feel embarassed? BUT I have to say, I sometimes think I am COMPLETELY sure that the man really is attracted to me and WANTS to ask me out, and sometimes get to the very point of asking HIM out, but then he says something or does something and I think - oh, maybe not, maybe Ive misread the signals… 😃 I think what Im starting to think is - go for it - for both male AND female - and if you have to get EMBARASSINGLY direct, then so be it! If it DOESNT happen, and you end up feeling a bit of a twit, well, at least youve tried. I can think of lots of people who HAVENT tried, but have wished later that they had, or, that they had tried harder! What about when the one you fancy and you THINK fancies you is a friend? Does that make it harder or easier ?? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/128 "2005-08-13T16:33:05Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > What about when the one you fancy and you THINK fancies you is a friend? Does that make it harder or easier ?? 🙂 Uh, that’s a whole different trainwreck. You might as well ask about driving the speed limit in the fast lane… ---
**Author:** ![iwakura43](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de0a6/32.png) [@iwakura43](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iwakura43)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/129 "2005-08-13T16:55:45Z")
> [@Robot Arm](#): > > But still, nothing is foolproof. I was carrying a torch for a woman I worked with. I made a completely unmistakable gesture; nobody could have not noticed that I was asking her out. She didn’t notice. A torch is a flashlight, yes? I don’t suppose the unmistakable gesture involved a cupped hand an an “O” face 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/130 "2005-08-13T19:15:44Z")
No, it involved Valentine’s Day and flowers. > [@Sensibility](#): > > I think what Im starting to think is - go for it - for both male AND female - and if you have to get EMBARASSINGLY direct, then so be it! None but the brave deserve the fair. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/131 "2005-08-13T20:20:29Z")
😃 > [@Robot Arm](#): > > No, it involved Valentine’s Day and flowers. > > None but the brave deserve the fair. Brave or stupid! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/132 "2005-08-13T20:21:33Z")
😃 > [@Ellis Dee](#): > > Uh, that’s a whole different trainwreck. You might as well ask about driving the speed limit in the fast lane… At your own risk??? 🙂 Bummer or what? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/133 "2005-08-14T01:33:57Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > How did it all get so confusing eh?? 🙂 > > I think what Im starting to think is - go for it - for both male AND female - and if you have to get EMBARASSINGLY direct, then so be it! If it DOESNT happen, and you end up feeling a bit of a twit, well, at least youve tried. I can think of lots of people who HAVENT tried, but have wished later that they had, or, that they had tried harder! > > What about when the one you fancy and you THINK fancies you is a friend? Does that make it harder or easier ?? 🙂 Truer words were never spoken, **Sensibility** I was talking to my friend, a local saloon proprietor, a few days ago and he told me that he had just witnessed an average Joe enter his establishment and use the “Wanna Fuck?” line on three women… he left with all three women that night. True story. I took it with a grain of salt but learned a bit of something from that account. I very recently had occasion to be direct with someone I really dig. She’s a beautiful, intelligent, and incredibly kind friend. I truly respect and love her but I also find her extremely desirable. I was very persistent and more direct than I have ever been… long story short, things turned out well. I embarrassed myself more than once and sometimes felt uncomfortable with what I was saying but the fact that we were friends gave us a lot of lateral movement and we were able to joke about it or laugh it off. I think it helped the situation. We kept it casual too, so it was just some mutual fun and nothing too serious. I’m glad I was direct, I don’t regret it and I don’t think she does. I have many regrets, but not this time. ---
**Author:** ![Sensibility](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@Sensibility](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sensibility)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/134 "2005-08-14T09:45:11Z")
> [@devilsknew](#): > > Truer words were never spoken, **Sensibility** > > I was talking to my friend, a local saloon proprietor, a few days ago and he told me that he had just witnessed an average Joe enter his establishment and use the “Wanna Fuck?” line on three women… he left with all three women that night. True story. > > I took it with a grain of salt but learned a bit of something from that account. I very recently had occasion to be direct with someone I really dig. She’s a beautiful, intelligent, and incredibly kind friend. I truly respect and love her but I also find her extremely desirable. I was very persistent and more direct than I have ever been… long story short, things turned out well. > > I embarrassed myself more than once and sometimes felt uncomfortable with what I was saying but the fact that we were friends gave us a lot of lateral movement and we were able to joke about it or laugh it off. I think it helped the situation. We kept it casual too, so it was just some mutual fun and nothing too serious. > > I’m glad I was direct, I don’t regret it and I don’t think she does. > > I have many regrets, but not this time. Thanks for that devilsknew! So theres hope for us yet then?! 😃 I will keep hoping in that case that MY friend also ‘has occasion to be direct’ with me too - in EXACTLY the same way!! Weve been friends a good while, so it should give us lots of ‘lateral movement’ in any otherwise potentially uncomfortable situation eh? Otherwise - if that doesnt work, Im just going to have to grab him and kiss him arent I???!!! Unless of course he does that first!! 😃😃 ---
**Author:** ![SnootQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@SnootQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnootQueen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/135 "2005-08-14T11:18:55Z")
Without any patience to read the replies… if you really have to ask for a definition of a nice girl… or guy… you’re gonna definitely run around in circles for a very long time. You’re needlessly confusing yourself. ---
**Author:** ![SnootQueen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@SnootQueen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnootQueen)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/136 "2005-08-14T11:40:47Z")
Oh, PLEASE tell me that you’re not so subjectional to lump girls into one category. That’d be awfully pitiful. I can’t even believe you’d suggest such a querie from this place to form a lump. We’re everywhere, in all forms. We’re great… everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Misnomer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misnomer/32/14897_2.png) [@Misnomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Misnomer)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/137 "2005-08-14T14:41:45Z")
> [@SnotBunny](#): > > you’re gonna definitely run around in circles for a very long time. You’re needlessly confusing yourself. No, that’s what _you’re_ doing, because you don’t have the “patience” to read through the thread before replying to it. That’s not a lack of patience, it’s a lack of manners. > [@SnotBunny](#): > > Oh, PLEASE tell me that you’re not so subjectional to lump girls into one category. That’d be awfully pitiful. I can’t even believe you’d suggest such a querie from this place to form a lump. No one has to tell you. It’s obvious to anyone who bothers to actually read the thread. What makes you think that you can jump in on page 3 of a thread, not bother reading it, and have anything worthwhile to contribute? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SusanStoHelit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@SusanStoHelit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SusanStoHelit)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/138 "2005-08-15T00:53:21Z")
> [@SnotBunny](#): > > Oh, PLEASE tell me that you’re not so subjectional to lump girls into one category. That’d be awfully pitiful. I can’t even believe you’d suggest such a querie from this place to form a lump. We’re everywhere, in all forms. We’re great… everywhere. Subjectional? When come back, bring dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/139 "2005-08-15T01:00:16Z")
As the OP, I suppose I must make some answer to **SnotBunny**. I know what I think a nice girl is…as distinct from a “nice girl.” I am looking for the opinions of others. This forum, in case you didn’t notice, is called “In My Humble Opinion.” ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387/140 "2005-08-15T16:48:45Z")
> [@Sensibility](#): > > Thanks for that devilsknew! > > So theres hope for us yet then?! 😃 > > I will keep hoping in that case that MY friend also ‘has occasion to be direct’ with me too - in EXACTLY the same way!! Weve been friends a good while, so it should give us lots of ‘lateral movement’ in any otherwise potentially uncomfortable situation eh? > > Otherwise - if that doesnt work, Im just going to have to grab him and kiss him arent I???!!! Unless of course he does that first!! 😃😃 Yes, you should definitely make your move. Forget all of the advice and the endless speculation about what you should do except in only the broadest of terms. Every situation is different, every person is different. You have to improvise and personalize, intuit and know. Forget categorizing. People are never strictly one thing. I do have some esteem problems and I idolize women but I also truly respect them and if that makes me a spineless “nice guy” then so be it. Maybe I am just an asshole, but the truth is probably closer to being that I am a little bit of everything, including a genuine nice guy (and I mean “everything” in the most encompassing buddhist way possible). I don’t approach people and women as bad or nice. Shit happens, people live with it the best way they can…everyone is just trying to be happy and fulfill basic needs, they are living within their ways and means. People are always changing and adapting. In the case of me and my friend, we’re just a couple of people enjoying the company of another and getting something we both need. If that makes us bad, then it sure is nice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-about-nice-guys-what-about-nice-girls/315387.md?page=8)