# Enough from the defenders of rapists already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392 "2014-11-23T05:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/321 "2014-12-02T03:43:52Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Lol. I’m not the one apologizing for rapists, so I’ll keep the low ground while you ride on your tainted high horse, prick. You wouldn’t know. As muddled as your head is, you probably wouldn’t know what you’re defending. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/322 "2014-12-02T04:00:07Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Super Gay Top Guy? Yeah. We met in grad school. Now, are you the type of person who uses their genitals to have sex, or do you pretend like they are the Arc of the Freaking Covenant? Because if you treat your dick like a plaything, who are you to complain when Super Gay Top Guy expects a turn? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/323 "2014-12-02T04:10:31Z")
Um, I’ve known lots of Super Gay Bottom Boys who throw their asses at Super Gay Top Guy and their sex dial goes from “meh” to “OMG marry me!” It doesn’t go from “rape” to “rape.” ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/324 "2014-12-02T04:14:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You wouldn’t know. > > As muddled as your head is, you probably wouldn’t know what you’re defending. Is that truly the best you’ve got? I’ve seen you rattle on and on and on as everyone else ignored you and talked around you, so I’m sure you take much comfort in being in the same esteemed company as SA and his other apologist buddies. What a collection you are. And thus far, you’ve been only right about what thing… I wouldn’t know. Because all the men in my life have all been able to control themselves and have understood what consent is. They have no desire to rape women and aren’t slaves to their uncontrollable urges. So, yep. You freaks stay under your rocks, preferably far, far away from me and mine. Keep slinging lame insults, talking yourselves to death and patting one another on the back for making those horrible hussies finish what they started. I’m sure your fathers would be proud, because after all, that’s undoubtedly where you’ve gotten this shit from. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/325 "2014-12-02T05:58:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Some women need to decide if their vagina is a casual sex toy or if it’s some sort of Arc of the Covenant, to be guarded and secreted away and fought over by all of humanity because it’s so gosh darned important. Wow. Just…wow. Words cannot describe how utterly loathesome this is. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/326 "2014-12-02T06:02:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Wow. Just…wow. Words cannot describe how utterly loathesome this is. Try. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/327 "2014-12-02T06:08:35Z")
Wow. This is some monkey poo being flung about. Rape is still rape, and coercive sex of any kind is rape. Non-consensual sex of any kind, including Dr. Cosby’s relaxing ruffies are also rape. I’m thinking that there are a lot of defenders in this thread who have had coercive sex and don’t think of themselves as rapists. Sorry guys, your paws are rapist paws. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/328 "2014-12-02T06:10:20Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Try. The various people around here who are either directly or indirectly defending Bill Cosby from rape allegations are venal scum. They decline to accept the accusatory statements of women against this serial rapist, on nothing more substantial than that they are women, and as such, their statements cannot carry any, much less sufficient weight. That sort deep hatred for women has for thousands of years enabled rapists and you assholes who are doing it, and those defending them, directly and indirectly, lack logic, intelligence, dignity and morals. The only suitable comeuppance for you jerks would be repeated reincarnation as a woman for every time in your life you have blithely dismissed the dignity of a woman or girl without a thought. If you bastards were pieces of shit, at least your remains could be beneficial as fertilizer. As it is, you make the inventors and users of mortgage debt swap derivatives look creative and contributory to humankind by comparison. Just stop raping and defending rape. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/329 "2014-12-02T06:14:27Z")
And when all it takes is a victim attitude and an accusation, Hitler and the terrorists have already won. Perhaps what this country needs isn’t cops with vest cameras. What we need is vagina cameras. Mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/330 "2014-12-02T06:30:47Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Lol. I’m not the one apologizing for rapists… You could not point to a factual apologist for rape in this thread to save your life. > [@faithfool](#): > > When I believe…I’m proven wrong every time. Yeah, pretty much. > [@faithfool](#): > > Because all the men in my life have all been able to control themselves… Somehow I have no difficulty at all in believing men find it easy to control themselves sexually where you’re concerned. 😃 Look, people like you are almost always wrong because you let emotion and what you want to believe supersede logic and facts. You did it with Joe Paterno, you did it with Woody Allen, and you’re doing it now with Bill Cosby. What is it about sex that causes people such as you to throw their brains out the window every time allegations of sexual impropriety come up? Neither facts nor plausible alternatives mean anything to you at all, and your immediate response to anyone daring to suggest something contrary to what you’ve reflexively decided to be the truth is to accuse them of being criminals themselves, or at the very least apologists and/or enablers…none of which bears the slightest relation to the truth. And then, once the facts mount up to the point you can no longer pretend they don’t exist and your beliefs are proven wrong, such as what happened when Paterno turned out not to be a pedophile himself nor a knowledgeable and willing enabler of child rape, and when it turned out Soon-Yi Previn was not Woody Allen’s daughter and that Allen and Mia Farrow were never married and never lived together, it doesn’t change your opinions in the slightest and you still hate them every bit as much as you did before your beliefs about them were proven wrong. You and your ilk are wackjobs pure and simple, and I thank my lucky stars that we live in a country with courts that adhere to rules of evidence which were established for the very purpose of thwarting people like you. ---
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/331 "2014-12-02T06:39:37Z")
I’d just like to say: **Ark** of the Covenant. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/332 "2014-12-02T06:49:39Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > If a woman decides their vagina is a casual sex toy they still get to decide who does and who does not get to “play” with it, right? > > CMC fnord! No one has suggested otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/333 "2014-12-02T07:06:49Z")
> [@crucible](#): > > I know I will get pounded for this…but…I accept the figures about rape – there are far more rapists and rapes that we almost can imagine… > > Why is it, then, that women seem to be behaving with more abandon than ever? An interesting thing is that the statistics don’t seem to follow your theory. The rates of rape have fallen dramatically in the last couple decades despite your theory that women are behaving with more abandon than ever and that this could lead to more sexual assault. I’ve seen the reporting of the falling rates in a couple sources. None of them give a reason for the decline, although there’s some speculation. The number of rapes have been reduced by 85% since the 1970’s. This is taken from a [2006 article](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/18/AR2006061800610.html): > [@](#): > > This seemingly stunning reduction in sexual violence has been so consistent over the past two decades that some experts say they have started to believe it is accurate, even if they cannot fully explain why it is occurring. > > In 1979, according to a Justice Department estimate based on a wide-ranging public survey, there were 2.8 rapes for every 1,000 people. In 2004, the same survey found that the rate had decreased to 0.4 per thousand. > > Many criminologists and victims’ advocates say that these numbers could be a statistical mirage, because rape is still underreported and poorly understood. But others say they have been convinced that there is real improvement and that a devastating crime has been receding from American life. In other words, if you think the rate of rape is high now, they were staggering before in the time when you’re describing women as more careful. Women’s attitudes and behaviors about sexuality haven’t increased the amount of rapes overall. In fact, the rate of rape has decreased significantly. Some people are speculating that rape education is helping. > [@](#): > > Another, more hopeful, explanation is that Americans have actually changed the way they think about sexual assault: Women have been taught to avoid unsafe situations, and both boys and girls have been drilled to understand the rules of consent. > > “They’re far more aware that ‘no’ means no,” than previous generations, Berkowitz said. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/334 "2014-12-02T07:16:56Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The various people around here who are either directly or indirectly defending Bill Cosby from rape allegations are venal scum. They decline to accept the accusatory statements of women against this serial rapist, on nothing more substantial than that they are women, and as such, their statements cannot carry any, much less sufficient weight. Cite that anyone has said they question the veracity of women’s claims against Cosby because they come from women. Cite that anyone has said that because they are women, their statements cannot carry any weight. Bet’cha can’t. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > That sort deep hatred for women… What deep seated hatred of women? Cite? I think most of us love women. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > …has for thousands of years enabled rapists and you assholes who are doing it, and those defending them, directly and indirectly, lack logic, intelligence, dignity and morals. BWAHAHAHAHA!! Look who’s talking. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The only suitable comeuppance for you jerks would be repeated reincarnation as a woman for every time in your life you have blithely dismissed the dignity of a woman or girl without a thought. So now it’s dignity that’s the problem? We’re supposed to unquestioningly accept the word of every woman now simply to maintain her dignity? I mean, dignity is nice and everything, but I’m not about to see a jail sentence handed down or a career ruined just to maintain someone’s dignity, whether man or woman. How silly. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If you bastards were pieces of shit… Thanks for boldly stating that which we already knew, i.e., we’re not pieces of shit after all. Now you might want to familiarize yourself with the definition of bastard, and perhaps demonstrate how any of our posts may identify us as such. > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Just stop raping and defending rape. Cite that anyone in this thread has been doing either. As I said to **faith borne of foolishness** , what is it about sex that makes you people absolutely lose your shit and throw your brains out the window? You can’t substantiate a word of any of the nonsense you’ve been posting but I’m sure that pesky little fact won’t daunt you a bit. I’m afraid you’ll have to pardon me if I don’t take seriously a word you say from now on…including your claim to be an attorney. I’ve never encountered an attorney in my life who exhibited such an utter absence of critical thinking ability combined with such a idiotic, nonsensical mentality. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/335 "2014-12-02T09:59:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > There’s a lot to say in response to your whole post but the bit just quoted invite a question. What are you doing to help solve the problem? I’m not pretending to solve the problem, both in a static and affirmative sense. > [@Frylock](#): > > A related question: what are you trying to accomplish by typing the words comprising the post from which the above quote was taken? What is the effect you’re trying to be a cause of? Wow, that was difficult to parse. It was like you’re asking how I see from my eyeball and how that gets translated to concepts. I’m still not sure what you’re trying to get at. But in the post you’re quoting, I was discussing **Spice Weasel** ’s question with her. Her question had some assumptions embedded in the question that I gave my opinion on before I got to her question. In the declarative parts, I was giving my opinion. In the question parts, I was asking for hers. So pretty much, message board discussion. > [@Frylock](#): > > It’s a really bad idea, but not because it has potentially disastrous consequences. Since no one would believe what they read in the setup you describe, it would have basically no consequences, much less disastrous ones. > > One important distinction between your amended scenario and the actual case is that in your scenario, there’s no element of vetting–the anonymous accusers, for example, didn’t have to approach any person who would make some basic judgments about the plausibility of their story (are they old enough to have been alive at the time, that kind of thing at least!) before the story is printed. > > Another important distinction between your scenario (in both forms) and the actual case is the distinction between a standardized streamlined reporting tool and a the messy, difficult means available to the actual accusers by which they can give their accounts. The ease with which reports can be made in your scenario (and again, the lack of even a basic vetting) causes the reports, taken as a whole, less weighty as evidence, both in the psychological sense (i.e., people would be less likely to believe it) and the rational sense (i.e. people would be right to be less likely to believe it). Interesting that you say that no one would believe what they read in the made-up registry. If so, that might be even more reason to set it up. A couple people in this thread claim that telling their stories IS the justice. Adding the name of the accused would just be more justice, right? (I personally don’t think it would be fair for the accused.) But then you also say that if people don’t believe the accusers of Bill Cosby, they’re bad people. It couldn’t just be that they don’t believe the weight of the evidence or they distrust the system through which it’s told or that they want to see both sides of a story before they judge it. I’ll add one more component to the thought experiment to overcome your objection to the vetting. If there were more than x number of accusations, then before the national publication printed it, the women would be required to send a copy of a current photo ID and birth certificate copy to prove they were actual women of a certain age. Does that overcome your objection? Your next objection is odd. You’re saying that the fact that since the accusers in the Bill Cosby case didn’t have a streamlined reporting system, they’re more credible? Wouldn’t you want it to be easier for women to come forward with their stories and not make it messy and difficult for them to do so? > [@Frylock](#): > > As an aside, like **even sven** I found your remark about the effects of outing all the rapists there are to be mysterious. You really did seem to be making the argument that we should think twice about doing it even were it possible, since it would affect so many people. Is that the argument you were intending to make? I’m guessing she was trying to mock my post. That’s pretty much all she’s doing with that list. Since she missed my point by a million miles as she has with so many of her other numbered points, it might be confusing you. > [@Frylock](#): > > Have you ever found yourself changing your mind about something important as a result of a series of social interactions you’d had? > > This has certainly happened to me, and I’ve seen it happen to many others. > > Having these discussions about cases like the Cosby case is part of the process of bringing about those kinds of changes. I’ve changed my mind from things ranging from eating out of a can to whether God exists, based on social interactions. The discussion about rape and the social implications of rape isn’t about Bill Cosby. He’s just being used as the icon and lightning rod for the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/336 "2014-12-02T10:11:55Z")
[Here’s an interesting tidbit](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2856967/Janice-Dickinson-breaks-live-CNN-explains-graphic-drugged-raped-Lake-Tahoe-hotel-room-1982.html) that illustrates some of the reasons why some of us haven’t immediately and unthinkingly jumped on the Kill Bill bandwagon. Notice the crying face but no tears? Notice how she blames Cosby’s manager for offering her wine when she’s fresh out of rehab? And how she apparently assumes no blame whatsoever for drinking it – it’s all his fault. Notice how she doesn’t say how much wine she drank or if it might have been the wine made her woozy and/or pass out, but instead puts the blame on some drug that Cosby allegedly gave her. Notice how she describes waking up in Cosby’s hotel room with semen all over her and her pajama bottoms off? Notice how the CNN correspondent leans forward to sympathetically offer assurance and pat Dickinson on the leg, instead of doing her job and asking why Janice Dickinson brought her pajamas to Bill Cosby’s hotel room. So, she’s crying with no tears, admits to falling off the wagon during her meeting with Cosby, and admits (or more likely, lets slip) having brought or worn pajamas to his hotel room in order to discuss a part on his TV show. Is it just the rape-apologizing misogynist in me, or does something about this version of events seem…implausible? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/337 "2014-12-02T12:09:57Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The various people around here who are either directly or indirectly defending Bill Cosby from rape allegations are venal scum. What happened to the presumption of innocence? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/338 "2014-12-02T12:14:36Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Is it just the rape-apologizing misogynist in me, or does something about this version of events seem…implausible? It’s just the misogynist in you. Some women call certain types of underwear “pajamas”, or she just had her suitcase with her at the time. Accepting wine doesn’t entitle one to be raped. Yeah, just more rape-excusing and apologizing. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/339 "2014-12-02T13:22:36Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Some women need to decide if their vagina is a casual sex toy or if it’s some sort of Arc of the Covenant, to be guarded and secreted away and fought over by all of humanity because it’s so gosh darned important. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking this. A woman’s vagina is like the rest of her body parts, to be used how and when she wants it needs to. Essentially you’re saying that unless a woman decides to refrain from all sexually pleasurable activities that she OWES a man sex if she has ever had enjoyed sex before or is currently enjoying some kind of sexual activity short of vaginal. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/340 "2014-12-02T13:29:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > And when all it takes is a victim attitude … Women who are raped just need a new attitude, eh? You’re a piece of shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392.md?page=18)