# Enough from the defenders of rapists already **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2014, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392 "2014-11-23T05:26:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/21 "2014-11-23T08:08:43Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > OP, your anger seems a bit over-the-top. This might help explain some. **The Second Stone** just got a warning for posting [this in IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17921332&postcount=329) to **Monty** in the example he brought up earlier in this thread: > [@Can we talk about Bill Cosby?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/327): > > The world comes with an abundant supply of morons, as you have convincingly proven. > [@Can we talk about Bill Cosby?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-we-talk-about-bill-cosby/705075/329): > > Warning issued for you, you know better by now not to insult others outside of the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/22 "2014-11-23T08:31:16Z")
> [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](#): > > This might help explain some. **The Second Stone** just got a warning for posting [this in IMHO](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17921332&postcount=329) to **Monty** in the example he brought up earlier in this thread: I wonder what kind of, if any, warning he’s going to get for accusing a bunch of people of a crime. “Enabling rape” at least _sounds_ like it should be a crime. At the least, his comment is jerky. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/23 "2014-11-23T08:44:02Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > OP, your anger seems a bit over-the-top. Given the anger he’s recently expressed over people [driving in the right hand lane](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17907300&postcount=44) on the highway, he had to up his game. If anything this seems kind of muted given that baseline. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/24 "2014-11-23T08:58:53Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > In your dreams. I will take that as a compliment because your lack of general awareness is astounding. If you want to take an IQ test or any other general purpose test for a bet, let me know and we will go head to head. Please remember, I only take cash. > > You are are too arrogant and not smart enough to understand the real argument people are making. I have no idea if he did it or not just like I don’t know if Michael Jackson ever really abused any kids. I can line up 10 women tonight that say you personally raped them between May and October 1997. What were you doing during that time? **SS** , I’d tread carefully. I’ve heard\* stories about **Shagnasty** ’s legendary I.Q. 'Tis not a man to be reckoned with. \*Granted, I heard all those stories from **Shag** himself but those are just details! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/25 "2014-11-23T09:01:31Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Unlike you, I do not claim to be smart or an intellectual. That’s an interesting comment. Haven’t you claimed to be a lawyer? Lawyers by definition are intellectuals and presumably are supposed to be smart. Since you’re confessing to be neither would you mind admitting why you lied about being a lawyer? I ask because you have stupidly declared me to be a liar though you lacked the courage or integrity to say that to my face. Why were you so embarrassed about your life situation that you felt the need to lie about it? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/26 "2014-11-23T09:11:43Z")
What the OP is omitting is the fact that several of these women apparently don’t know if they were raped or not. They claim Cosby drugged them and when they awoke their clothing was akimbo, but they aren’t sure if sex actually took place. Others continued to see Cosby for days, months and even years after their so-called rape. Cosby has always put a premium on education and in at least a couple of the cases he even paid for these women to attend college. In the case of the woman who lived with him in his penthouse for three weeks after she was supposedly raped, he offered to pay her $500 if she got good grades in nursing school, which she did and he did. She continued to hit him up for money periodically over the next twenty years, receiving at one point when she was down and out some $15,000. Others are claiming “sexual assault” for what was in reality consensual sex play that they weren’t forced into and made no attempt to avoid at the time. Others are just ridiculous. Lou Ferrigno’s wife is now claiming that Cosby sexually assaulted her. And what did he do, according to her? He kissed her (or tried to kiss her, depending on which version of her story you read, and it’s been changing from day to day. Based on her earlier descriptions of what happened it sounds like he did nothing more than kiss her unexpectedly. In one account she says he asked her what she thought about it and she said she didn’t know, that she’d never been kissed by a black man before. He then asked how it was and she answered “The same.” So it’s sounding to me like her attack on Cosby may be race-based. Then we have another woman making the ridiculous claim that Cosby came walking into the Green Room of the Tonight Show where she was sitting and walked right up to her, whipped his penis out, grabbed her head and forced her to give him oral sex right there on the spot, whilst saying something along the line of “Have a taste of this, it will do you good in so many ways.” And then the latest so-called victim is claiming Cosby assaulted her in a hotel room and forced her to masturbate him. And how did that particular bit of horror occur? According to her, like this: Cosby told her to go into the bathroom and wet her hair, which she did. While she was doing that he took off his clothes and got into bed under the covers. She comes out and he puts lotion on her hand, takes her hand in his and uses it to masturbate him under the covers. She was allegedly so dumbstruck by this that she just went along with it. What she doesn’t explain is how Cosby managed to levitate her from the bathroom door to his bed, and hold her still while he put lotion on her hand, and then guide her to masturbate him against her will while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to indicate she was doing anything against her will. I don’t know how some of these women can keep a straight face. And I’m actually starting to feel a little sorry for Cosby. Here he is, a guy who’s tried to help some of these women better their lives, rewarded them for doing well in school, in some cases paid for their higher education, helped them in time of need, and now here they are decades later trying to destroy him. Now as to the OP, all of this is misogyny. There is simply no room in his or her mind for anything but unquestioning belief in whatever any woman says once she claims rape or sexual assault, and anyone who questions it or discovers that things don’t add up is a victim-blaming rapist enabler who hates women. In short, he or she is a loon who has completely lost perspective and has no interest whatsoever in getting at the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/27 "2014-11-23T09:19:15Z")
Yeah, +1 on the “I’d like to see evidence beyond accusations” thingy. I’m sorry, but this is sort of where I differ from many. I’d like to see some real evidence before I condemn someone as a rapist. This isn’t misogyny, this is rational justice. I’m not going to just take someone’s word for it that someone did something evil to them, I need some proof. (That said, **kstarnes** is a misogynistic douchecanoe.) ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/28 "2014-11-23T09:19:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > What the OP is omitting is the fact that several of these women apparently don’t know if they were raped or not. They claim Cosby drugged them and when they awoke their clothing was akimbo, but they aren’t sure if sex actually took place. > > Others continued to see Cosby for days, months and even years after their so-called rape. Cosby has always put a premium on education and in at least a couple of the cases he even paid for these women to attend college. In the case of the woman who lived with him in his penthouse for three weeks after she was supposedly raped, he offered to pay her $500 if she got good grades in nursing school, which she did and he did. She continued to hit him up for money periodically over the next twenty years, receiving at one point when she was down and out some $15,000. > > Others are claiming “sexual assault” for what was in reality consensual sex play that they weren’t forced into and made no attempt to avoid at the time. > > Others are just ridiculous. Lou Ferrigno’s wife is now claiming that Cosby sexually assaulted her. And what did he do, according to her? He kissed her (or tried to kiss her, depending on which version of her story you read, and it’s been changing from day to day. Based on her earlier descriptions of what happened it sounds like he did nothing more than kiss her unexpectedly. In one account she says he asked her what she thought about it and she said she didn’t know, that she’d never been kissed by a black man before. He then asked how it was and she answered “The same.” So it’s sounding to me like her attack on Cosby may be race-based. > > Then we have another woman making the ridiculous claim that Cosby came walking into the Green Room of the Tonight Show where she was sitting and walked right up to her, whipped his penis out, grabbed her head and forced her to give him oral sex right there on the spot, whilst saying something along the line of “Have a taste of this, it will do you good in so many ways.” > > And then the latest so-called victim is claiming Cosby assaulted her in a hotel room and forced her to masturbate him. And how did that particular bit of horror occur? According to her, like this: Cosby told her to go into the bathroom and wet her hair, which she did. While she was doing that he took off his clothes and got into bed under the covers. She comes out and he puts lotion on her hand, takes her hand in his and uses it to masturbate him under the covers. She was allegedly so dumbstruck by this that she just went along with it. What she doesn’t explain is how Cosby managed to levitate her from the bathroom door to his bed, and hold her still while he put lotion on her hand, and then guide her to masturbate him against her will while at the same time doing absolutely nothing to indicate she was doing anything against her will. > > I don’t know how some of these women can keep a straight face. > > And I’m actually starting to feel a little sorry for Cosby. Here he is, a guy who’s tried to help some of these women better their lives, rewarded them for doing well in school, in some cases paid for their higher education, helped them in time of need, and now here they are decades later trying to destroy him. > > Now as to the OP, all of this is misogyny. There is simply no room in his or her mind for anything but unquestioning belief in whatever any woman says once she claims rape or sexual assault, and anyone who questions it or discovers that things don’t add up is a victim-blaming rapist enabler who hates women. > > In short, he or she is a loon who has completely lost perspective and has no interest whatsoever in getting at the truth. Did Cosby pass the paper towel tube test? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/29 "2014-11-23T09:22:50Z")
Looks like most people are more discerning than the OP, as Cosby has received standing ovations at his two most recent performances, one in the [Bahamas](http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/bill-cosby-jokes-about-being-an-evil-man-gets-standing-ovation-in-first-performance) and the other at [Eastern Florida State College](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bill-cosby-scandal/bill-cosby-gets-standing-ovation-florida-theater-n253996). ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/30 "2014-11-23T09:29:15Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Looks like most people are more discerning than the OP, as Cosby has received standing ovations at his two most recent performances, one in the [Bahamas](http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2014/11/bill-cosby-jokes-about-being-an-evil-man-gets-standing-ovation-in-first-performance) and the other at [Eastern Florida State College](http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bill-cosby-scandal/bill-cosby-gets-standing-ovation-florida-theater-n253996). Why was that? Did he demonstrate that he could pass the paper towel tube test? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/31 "2014-11-23T09:31:47Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Did Cosby pass the paper towel tube test? No need. He wasn’t hysterically jumping to false conclusions and therefore had nothing to learn. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/32 "2014-11-23T09:32:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I wonder what kind of, if any, warning he’s going to get for accusing a bunch of people of a crime. “Enabling rape” at least _sounds_ like it should be a crime. At the least, his comment is jerky. Report him and find out. Not meant as an insult BTW. a serious suggestion because he has a record of being protected. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/33 "2014-11-23T09:48:19Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Report him and find out. Already did. > [@](#): > > Not meant as an insult BTW. No worries; I didn’t take it as an insult. > [@](#): > > a serious suggestion because he has a record of being protected. That individual was never on my radar until the current conniption fit(s) said individual is presenting so I have no idea of what/when/where/why/how/by whom TSS got protection. That protection didn’t seem to work so well in the IMHO thread. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/34 "2014-11-23T09:56:49Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Given the anger he’s recently expressed over people [driving in the right hand lane](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17907300&postcount=44) on the highway, he had to up his game. If anything this seems kind of muted given that baseline. Wow. Just wow. That’s the craziest stuff I’ve seen since I don’t know when. You’re not kidding; it’d take some professional caliber crazy to top that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/35 "2014-11-23T09:57:09Z")
In the public arena when it comes to rape cases, it’s very difficult to balance “innocent until proven guilty” with “way way WAY too often, for hundreds of years, rape victims have been dismissed, shouted down, and discouraged from telling anyone of their assault”. It’s a similar thing with many crimes against children: the victims were ignored for so long that it’s hard not to lurch in the other direction. Worse (at least when it comes to rape), statistics show that the number of false accusations is pretty small compared to the number that never even get reported in the first place. I can’t say I know what to suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/36 "2014-11-23T12:49:05Z")
Just want to check and see if [I am one of the subhuman pieces of shit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17912156&postcount=26) or not before I weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/37 "2014-11-23T14:34:19Z")
I don’t know anything about the OP’s alleged recent anger levels or anything, but as to what he’s literally saying in his first post here, I agree that by this point, defending Cosby makes it very likely that you are a bad person. In the case of some posters who I will not name, because I suppose I am probably not supposed to by some board policy or other, the defenses of Cosby wander into “that poster is probably a rapist himself” territory. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/38 "2014-11-23T14:59:14Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > In the public arena when it comes to rape cases, it’s very difficult to balance “innocent until proven guilty” with “way way WAY too often, for hundreds of years, rape victims have been dismissed, shouted down, and discouraged from telling anyone of their assault”. It’s a similar thing with many crimes against children: the victims were ignored for so long that it’s hard not to lurch in the other direction. Worse (at least when it comes to rape), statistics show that the number of false accusations is pretty small compared to the number that never even get reported in the first place. > > I can’t say I know what to suggest. And I suggest one of the easiest balances is how much harm will come to the accused if the accusations are true. Cosby is a rich man who is not long for this world. Compared to not blaming rape victims, what can happen to him is rather small. If you don’t like that one, then there’s this one: assume the rape allegations are true unless you have at least a credible way they could not be true. As Cosby refuses to deny any of this, we have no alternative. We can make up a few in some cases, but we don’t have enough to explain away all of them. There were people in that thread that would act like they were being neutral, but it was clear that they were siding with Cosby and devaluing the claims of the alleged rape victims. It was all about how bad Cosby would feel, rather than anything about the women and what it was like from their perspective. I find it interesting that so many of those people seem to have figured out that the thread is about them. He even flat out said that the people wanting due process are not being pitted. So who’s left? The people actually siding with Cosby and making light of the allegations. Those people deserve to be Pitted. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/39 "2014-11-23T15:00:45Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s an interesting comment. > > Haven’t you claimed to be a lawyer? > > Lawyers by definition are intellectuals and presumably are supposed to be smart. Am I the only one who thinks there is a difference between referring to an “intellect” and labeling someone as an “intellectual”? Lawyers by definition are smart enough to pass the bar. Beyond that I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392/40 "2014-11-23T15:04:28Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Wow. Just wow. That’s the craziest stuff I’ve seen since I don’t know when. You’re not kidding; it’d take some professional caliber crazy to top that. It’s also entirely irrelevant. It’s a shitty move that some posters pull up when they don’t actually have a counterargument. You did claim that the allegations from the possible rape victims were just hot air. You care about Cosby, but not them. You deserve to be Pitted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enough-from-the-defenders-of-rapists-already/705392.md?page=3)