Laundry detergents and other soaps have hydrophobic and hydrophillic heads. Do you, who cling to this “hate” aspect of the definition as though there is no other listed, truly believe that the hydrophobic detergent head is sentient and therefore is capable of being afraid of being in water, or is it more accurate to say that it has a chemical aversion to water?
I’m not sure why the word “homophobia” is so frightening. If it’s a phobia, it’s a clinical psuchiatric condition, and those homophobes should be pitied, and given appropriate medical treatment, rather than hated.
That’s perfectly consistent with your average homophobe not only hating gays, but also hating any homosexual tendencies within himself. They just know that men being sexually attracted to men in morally wrong, and they can’t reconcile that with any sort of sexual feelings or attraction that they hasve for men. (I say men here, because I’ve not noticed many women hating lesbians in this way.) (I might also add that I’m a very straight guy – I was moderately attracted to a few boys of my own age while at high school, but that may have been because I went to an all boys’ school: since the age of 16, I’ve only been interested in girls or women).
It’s like a few other things in life: you get frightened on the unknown, especially if it challenges the way you perceive yourself. Why are they frightened of what other men might do in their own bedrooms, or in gay bars, or whatever? It’s because they can see themselves there, and it frightens them.
So they get especially frightened by the thought of a gay man hitting on them, because they are worried that they might say yes. (Me, I’ve had gays hitting on me once or twice: it was mildly flattering, except for the one who I think was really after my money for sex; but it didn’t worry me, because I’m not frightened of being gay).
Huh? Am I missing something? Chatelaine specifically said that it refers to, and I quote, “fear or aversion to.” Where do you get the idea that she (she?) is “cling[ing] to this ‘hate’ aspect of the definition as if there is no other listed”?
Or did I just have too much wine with dinner, and am thereby humiliatingly misinterpreting what you’re saying?
Daniel
I think maybe the wrong person was quoted? If not, I am **very ** confused.
Ah fuck.
I was adding onto, not disputing, the quoted bit. Sorta a “me too and this!” type of post.
And I woulda gotten away with it, too, if it wasn’t for you meddlin’ kids…
I was thinking more along the lines of hydrophobia, as meaning rabies (think Cujo).
Well, that, and also if it wasn’t for the fact that he’s clinging to the “fear” definition and not the “hate” definition ;).
Daniel
This isn’t the Pit, alright.
I’m hate things which are alike? Do you mean I hate things which are alike?
I don’t know that this issue comes up all the time. Don’t get mad at me.
All this shit about the average “homophobe” hating “gay tendencies within himself”? I don’t buy it. Despite what the movies portray (as in American Beauty,) when was the last time an outright gay-hating public figure has come out as gay? When was the last time anyone you knew came out as gay after a lifetime of gay-bashing? Why don’t all these conservative Christians get embarrassingly “outed” and have their careers destroyed if they all have inner homosexual desires?
Surely one of them would have by now if you’re correct.
It’s possible for someone to be a moral hypocrite. Jimmy Swaggart and his prostitutes, Bill Bennett and his gambling, Strom Thurmond and his black mistress, and other fine individuals are examples of this. But I really don’t think people who are against gays are all gay themselves. What evidence do we have to support this idea?
Wrong, dumbass.
Daniel
This is the pit. What are ya, new? ROFL LOL ROFLMAO
Aren’t you the one bitching about neocon being code for Jew in GD right now? So your own twisting of words is okay but the natural progression of a word’s meaning over centuries isn’t?
How ironic.
As a more serious response (sorry, I’m terrible at passing up a straight line like that), what I meant was that efforts to derive the word’s meaning through strict etymologism are doomed to failure. Even if “phobos” didn’t traditionally refer to both “hatred” and “fear,” even if it only referred to “fear” as you suggest, “homo” is greek for “same.” “Homo+sexual” = “same sex.” “Homo+phobia,” strictly speaking, means “fear or hatred of same.”
So the etymology is of very limited use in figuring out the word’s meaning. That leaves you with two legitimate avenues for parsing the word:
- You can look up the definition in the dictionary; or
- You can pay attention to how folks use the word.
Fortunately for you, the dictionary and the common usage of the word coincide: people use the word, and the dictionary defines the word, as “a person who has a hatred of, or contempt for, homosexuals.”
Unfortunately for you, that renders your OP completely stupid.
This is a great time for you to use the smacky-head smiley, apologize, and move on.
Daniel
I’m the one who mentioned latency – is that the case with all homophobes? Fuck no, it certainly is not and I apologize if I gave that impression. Does it happen? Yes. I’ve known a few people personally who espoused hatred or repugnancy toward gays come out later in life. Their explanation was that if they went through the motions, they’d eventually change. S’like this – no matter how much you like chocolate, if you spend enough time and energy telling yourself that chocolate is disgusting and vile, you’ll come to hate it at some point. Forgive the bad analogy, but you get the point.
iampunha, I’m glad you were agreeing and not challenging! I stared at your post in confusion and wrung my hands over how to answer, because I couldn’t figure out the question for the life of me! 
And, er, yes. This is indeed the Pit.
First of all, I don’t want anyone to get the impression that I’m anti-gay or “afraid” of gays, because I swear I’m not. I just hate it when people use word games.
What’s “my own twisting of words?” It’s the same issue as far as I’m concerned: people saying one thing and meaning another.
Wow. THe depth of the ignorance here is just, just, wow.
First of all, whether you buy it or not isn’t really relevant, chief. In fact there have been some pretty conclusive studies on the matter. Search old threads or google; the truth is out there.
In the second place, if an individual WERE conflicted enough to repress his own homosexual tendencies by means of violent action toward the free-living, unrepressed homosexuals he violently envies, do you really think he’s the type of individual ever to come peacefullly enough to terms with himself to publicly announce his sexuality? You’re talking about two diametrically opposed methods for processing the psychological truth of one’s homosexuality.
dude, the point has been made: why are you objecting to the word based on your understanding of the literal meaning of the root “phobia,” when the literal meaning of the word “homo” is “same”?
In addition to which, it’s been pointed out that as language adapts, the literal meaning of the roots are not necessarily relevant.
Do you understanding that your objections make no sense, semantically? Do you understand that your logical response should be “Oh, sorry, I should have looked up the word. I had a mistaken impression of what it meant.”
Unless . . . you’re protesting a bit too much . . . not that there’s anything *wrong *with that . . .
Oh, what was his name, the guy who headed a rather large ex-gay group and was then caught in a gay bar “using the bathroom”? Where’s jayjay to enlighten me again?
Where was the question raised? Maybe it’s the Redskins-Cowboys game on television or something else similarly distracting - OOH, SHINY! - but I don’t see where the comment originates other than in your post, so unless you’re asking if there is evidence of such a thing, I dunno what to tell you. I don’t think all homophobes are gay, but I think the more fervent ones are fervent for a reason, and after a while you tend to think it might have some “protest too much” basis to it. I know it did for me, to a small extent, when I was in high school. I would have denied it all the way to church (heh) but it was true.
Perhaps, Paul (odds that this sort of thing has been said before to another Paul?;)), you should consider that the dictionary-listed definition of a word does not quite match its functioning definition?
I want to know the date that the word “Homophobia” was added to the dictionary. I would suspect it was sometime after the gay movement began to get attention.
My OP isn’t changed at all by anything anyone has spouted out in the veritable orgy of condemnation my statement has triggered. Not one fucking bit. I wondered why homosexuals are the only minority group to get a “phobia” designation for people bigoted against them. The fact that “homophobic” etymologically means something other than what people might think is irrelevant here because it carries a very distinct connotation that none other of said bigots have.
For your information, there’s a difference between ex-gay and anti-gay.
The ex-gay thing makes sense because I don’t think you can make yourself un-gay, nor do most logical people.
Dude… quit digging…