# \#$%@ Enron and Worldcom!

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457>\
**Category:** The BBQ Pit\
**Created:** [January 14, 2003, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457 "2003-01-14T03:02:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 11\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/21 "2003-01-14T15:53:09Z")

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Several Enron executives have been and are being prosecuted. Former CFO Andrew Fastow is facing almost 80 federal counts. Here’s the [latest news](http://www.findlaw.com/business/s/20030110/enronfastowdc.html).

Here’s a copy of his [indictment](http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/enron/usfastow100102cmp.pdf).

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**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/22 "2003-01-14T15:56:07Z")

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Whoops. Lets try that link for the [latest news again](http://news.findlaw.com/business/s/20030110/enronfastowdc.html).

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**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/23 "2003-01-14T16:47:39Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Cheesesteak \*  
> \*\*elf6c, you honestly think that Enron engineered every one of their shady deals in the 9mo that Bush was president (before the collapse), and not a single thing before then? \*\*

Nope. Good point.

While GW did all he could for them, the GOP in congress is more to blame. Although Bubba hardly distingished himself in this regard either. Still when serious accounting reform was proposed under Levine’s SEC who blocked it?

While there is plenty of indictments on the Enron front, the case is much further behind then those against AA, Worldcom, Adephia, Global Crossing or even the plain jane insider trading case again Martha Stewart.

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**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/24 "2003-01-14T17:07:49Z")

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**elf6c** , shredding was done by AA, and it was an Obstruction of Justice charge tied to the shredding that was their undoing.

Other than that, I agree with the non-political parts of your post. I think Enron’s money bought lots of pols on both sides of the aisle and probably bought the aisle too.

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**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/25 "2003-01-14T18:04:56Z")

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FYI- Enron was shredding too. Remember the whole FBI in the building to stop the shredding thing. I can probably find a link if you don’t remember.

AA was dead, even if they were not convicted. By the time the trial was done, most of their clients were already long gone. Its sad, as I knew lots of top notch AA folks in Chicago and Milwaukee who were absolutely top notch in all respects.

FWIW: the Dems are just as bad about being co-opted (see i.e. Fritz Hollings re: his draconian copyright protection bill), its just that it was the GOP’s turn to get caught “green-handed” based on their sucess in raising corporate soft money over the Dems. All that money is not “free”. Lest anyone think I am a DEM flunky, my 2 favorite pols are Colin Powell and John McCain. I am almost no one’s flunky. 😉

Thanks for the civil conversation all.

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**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/26 "2003-01-14T18:11:19Z")

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Link:

[http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/23/enron/](http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/01/23/enron/)

Quote:

> [@](#):
>
> HOUSTON, Texas (CNN) – Enron security guards were stationed on the 19th and 20th floors of the company’s building here Tuesday to prevent further shredding of documents, company lawyers said during a federal court hearing.
> 
> Former executive Maureen Castaneda said Monday employees were shredding documents as late as January 14, in spite of the company’s December bankruptcy filing that costs thousands of investors and employees their life savings.

Link:

[http://money.cnn.com/2002/01/22/companies/enron/](http://money.cnn.com/2002/01/22/companies/enron/)

Quote:

> [@](#):
>
> NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Enron Corp. allowed the Federal Bureau of Investigation to interview workers located on the 19th and 20th floors of its Houston headquarters and stationed security guards there Tuesday to prevent further shredding of documents, Enron lawyers said during a federal court hearing in Houston.
> 
> Separately, lawyers representing Enron investors asked a federal judge to assign a U.S. marshal or security team inside the building to ensure no more documents are destroyed. An initial search of the 19th floor revealed one wastebasket filled with shredded documents that have been turned over to authorities.
> 
> The actions come as ex-Enron employees revealed Monday that possibly important documents were shredded as recently as last week at Enron headquarters. The shredding continued despite federal subpoenas and court orders since late October forbidding the practice.

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**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/27 "2003-01-14T19:02:02Z")

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Elf wrote:

> [@](#):
>
> While GW did all he could for them, the GOP in congress is more to blame.

I feel weird defending Republicans, but I do find it curious that the blame moves through the executive branch and then, like an electron changing orbit, does a quantum leap into the legislature. Why didn’t the blame continue on to the prior executive administration?

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**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/28 "2003-01-14T19:37:18Z")

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> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Libertarian \*  
> \*\*Elf wrote:
> 
> I feel weird defending Republicans, but I do find it curious that the blame moves through the executive branch and then, like an electron changing orbit, does a quantum leap into the legislature. Why didn’t the blame continue on to the prior executive administration? \*\*

Answer A: Because when the previous administration SEC head tried to tighten accounting rules and attack conflict of interest those were they people who stopped it, threatening the SEC’s funding, questing their authority, writing lots of nasty letters. When the current administration came to power, they continued this policy. Also note the:

> [@](#):
>
> Although Bubba hardly distingished himself in this regard either.

Plenty of blame to go around. Most of it properly landed on the GOP side this time. When Hillary gets elected in 2008 I am sure it will be reversed.

Answer B: The prior executive admnistration had the wrong electrical charge, causing the electron to jump two states.

Answer C: Enron caused the main deflector dish to emit a sun space positron field emission which inverted the plamsa coils and took the main reactor offline. Oops, that’s the Star Trek answer. 😉

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**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/29 "2003-01-14T19:42:21Z")

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Thanks **elf**. Selective memory and all that in my old age. Still, any day I get something 50% right can’t be half bad.

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**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/30 "2003-01-14T19:51:26Z")

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A few links for thought.

GOP to blame:

[http://www.redherring.com/columns/2002/friday/lastword062802.html](http://www.redherring.com/columns/2002/friday/lastword062802.html)

Not so fast says this guy:

[http://www.redherring.com/investor/2002/0628/aldencounter062802.html](http://www.redherring.com/investor/2002/0628/aldencounter062802.html)

Interesting analysis of the various “spins”:

[http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020704.html](http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20020704.html)

Crossfire:

[http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/31/cf.crossfire/](http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/07/31/cf.crossfire/)

The Slate: (political analysis of possible Gore strategies):

1. Link fiscal decline to corporate scandal. The issue that cuts most clearly against Republicans is the accounting fiascoes at Enron, WorldCom, and other once-giant companies. The public refuses to believe that Democrats are equally to blame for these scandals, just as it refuses to believe that Democrats are strong on crime or defense. That’s the voters’ prejudice, and they’re stickin’ to it. But Democrats have had difficulty pinning specific corporate shenanigans on specific Republicans, so now they make the link by analogy. In Wednesday’s speech, Gore accused Bush of false revenue projections and hidden expenses. Gore called this “Enron accounting.”

[http://slate.msn.com/id/2071873/](http://slate.msn.com/id/2071873/)

PBS:

A recent USA Today/CNN poll indicates that is partly true. According to respondents, 76 percent of Americans said big business had too much influence over Republicans. But the number is only slightly lower for Democrats, with 63 percent of respondents saying large corporations held too much sway.

[http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/issues/corp\_responsibility.php](http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2002/issues/corp_responsibility.php)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enron-and-worldcom/148457/31 "2003-01-14T20:16:52Z")

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:smack:

I forgot that Bubba meant Clinton. Sorry.

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