# Ensign Edison! Fine, I won't use the term 'tranny.' Screw you though. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 26, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907 "2006-03-26T01:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/21 "2006-03-26T06:03:04Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > It occurs to me that the common use as a sexually disrespectful term in porn might **be** the reason it’s offensive. But doesn’t that beg the question? Have we determined that it is, in fact, a sexually disrespectful term? If it is, I think you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/22 "2006-03-26T06:19:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Have we determined that it is, in fact, a sexually disrespectful term? That leads to the question of what kind of cite you’d find convincing. Wikipedia notes that many people consider the term “highly offensive,” but that’s Wikipedia. I don’t think the OED is going to have anything on the subject, and Merriam-Webster didn’t as far as I could tell. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/23 "2006-03-26T06:25:34Z")
[About.com](http://gaylife.about.com/od/transgender/f/trannie.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/24 "2006-03-26T06:40:35Z")
As I said in the other thread: 1. I hang out with a lot of transsexuals and a lot of them use the term back and forth with each other and/or to describe other people. 2. I asked the transsexuals I know if they found it offensive and most of them said no. 3. The ones who asked that I not use it said that the reason they didn’t like the word to be used in reference to transsexuals in general was because of its association with transvestites NOT because it was offensive and debased transsexuals in general. 4. There are plenty of groups that use the word tranny to describe themselves. See [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7230248&postcount=63) for links. If the term offends you personally, then fine, I won’t use it. But to say that it is equivalent to nigger or cunt is just absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/25 "2006-03-26T06:52:57Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > If the term offends you personally, then fine, I won’t use it. But to say that it is equivalent to nigger or cunt is just absurd. Offensive to some members of the group, acceptable to others? Sometimes used as a slur by outsiders, sometimes as a “reclaimed” term of affection within the group? That sounds _exactly_ like nigger or cunt to me. Although I think you had that argument in the other thread too. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/26 "2006-03-26T06:53:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That leads to the question of what kind of cite you’d find convincing. Wikipedia notes that many people consider the term “highly offensive,” but that’s Wikipedia. I don’t think the OED is going to have anything on the subject, and Merriam-Webster didn’t as far as I could tell. Based on the links provided by **kimera** , I think it is safe to say that the word is not offensive to a great many in the transexual community. The [about.com](http://about.com) defintition and that from Wiki claim that it can be offensive, and I have no doubt it can be. But as **kimera** offered, to equate it with nigger and cunt seems ludicrous. If there is evidence to otherwaise support that claim, I am open to it. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/27 "2006-03-26T06:57:42Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Offensive to some members of the group, acceptable to others? Sometimes used as a slur by outsiders, sometimes as a “reclaimed” term of affection within the group? That sounds _exactly_ like nigger or cunt to me. Although I think you had that argument in the other thread too. Did you look at the links she provided? Don’t you think (unlike my google search) that they are legitimate websites by transexuals for transexuals, without the pornographic skew. ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/28 "2006-03-26T07:02:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think the OED is going to have anything on the subject, and Merriam-Webster didn’t as far as I could tell. The OED does mention “trannie”, but its entry only applies to the abbreviated form of “transvestite”. > [@](#): > > **1983** _The Magazine_ Apr. 23/3 Guys needn’t worry…unless they look as if they’re cruising or mistake a ‘trannie’, most of whom are a lot more glamorous than the real girls. **1984** MCCONVILLE & SHEARLAW _Slanguage of Sex_ (1985) 256/1 _Trannie_, transvestite. An affectionate abbreviation, in vogue amongst sections of the gay community. **1990** _Gay Times_ July 47 By 11pm they seem drunkenly immune to the influx of trannies, trendies, and other creatures of the night. \*Bolded and italicized words are as they appear in the entry. **Marley23** is correct, but since I was surprised to find _any_ definition of trannie/tranny (other than as they apply to transmissions and transistors) in the OED, I thought I’d throw this in simply as a point of semi-related interest. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/29 "2006-03-26T07:05:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds _exactly_ like nigger or cunt to me. How so? Most of the black people I know don’t go around calling each other “niggers” or use the term in their day to day speech. Same with most women using the term cunt. I think the vast majority of people both inside and outside of those communities realize those terms are offensive. Nigger is offensive because of the [long history](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger) of instutionalized racism. And cunt is highly offensive because it degrades women by making suggesting that that’s the only necessary part of a woman (that’s what I’ve been told anyway.) When I asked the transsexuals I know if they found tranny offensive, most of them said that they didn’t. Now, a fair amount of them disliked the word but that was because they didn’t want to be associated with transvestites. I linked to the Cafe Society thread and some of them said that they didn’t even know that some people through the word was highly offensive. These are people who are very active in the trans community so if the term was commonly acknowledged as offensive then I think they would know. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/30 "2006-03-26T07:16:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Based on the links provided by **kimera** , I think it is safe to say that the word is not offensive to a great many in the transexual community. I’m not willing to make any kind of numerical statement based on Web links, but obviously it’s not offensive to everyone. Yes, I saw **kimera** ’s links. It’s offensive to some people and not to others, obviously. What I’m arguing against is your first post, wherein your said > [@](#): > > It seems that those very people who we are discussing do not have a problem with the word “tranny”. That implies most or all transsexuals have no problem with the term. I have no idea where the consensus lies. > [@kimera](#): > > How so? Most of the black people I know don’t go around calling each other “niggers” or use the term in their day to day speech. Same with most women using the term cunt. I think the vast majority of people both inside and outside of those communities realize those terms are offensive. It’s become “nigga” instead of nigger in the black community, of course, and I’m not saying it’s used daily by everyone. Not even close. But it’s used in that manner for sure. “Cunt” is pretty much used only by certain kinds of feminists, in my experience, but it’s a similar attempt at reclamation of an offensive term. I’m surprised to hear that the people you know didn’t even know it was offensive, but I haven’t had a lot of non-SDMB interaction with transgendered people. If I can take a wild guess, I think there are some generational issues at work here, with younger people less likely to find it insulting. ---
**Author:** ![Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ink\_a\_dink\_a\_dink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ink_a_dink_a_dink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/31 "2006-03-26T07:27:00Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > The fact that it’s used, on occasion, by people who are themselves transsexual who aren’t being derogatory doesn’t mean that it’s okay to use it anymore than it’s okay for a pale person to run down the street in downtown Baltimore shouting, “My niggas!” > > The majority of those results are for porn sites, which almost invariably also use the word “she-male”, which is most definitely NOT acceptable. Transsexual porn is not really considered a high accolade, any more than gay porn touting “Giant Black Horse-hung Dicks!!!” is a high accolade for African-Americans. > > Deciding that “tranny” is perfectly okay to use because it returns several pages of Google results is the very definition of shoddy research. Know plenty of trannies, and they’re loving the term. Also know a bunch of she-males, who proudly own that term. Get off a horse, climb off a cross. If it offends one person, they can seriously request you to refer to them as something else, but for a group as a whole, whatever THEY find acceptable should be the norm. And she-male is not just a “porn” term. It’s a pre-op transexual, I believe. Inky ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/32 "2006-03-26T07:36:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If I can take a wild guess, I think there are some generational issues at work here, with younger people less likely to find it insulting. This is very true. Most of the transsexuals I regularly hang out with/interact with are young and pretty chill about most trans issues. I started up a poll on two of the biggest transsexual-oriented message boards to get a wider opinion. **Ink a dink a dink** , I also know some transsexuals who use the term “she-male” to describe themselves. However, I also know how offensive it is considered by a lot of members of the community. There was a huge conflict in an irc channel that I hang out in when a lot of people wanted the term banned and other people insisted that they should be allowed to refer to themselves as such. I would never refer to someone as she-male unless she had indicated that she wished to be referred to as such. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/33 "2006-03-26T07:59:04Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That implies most or all transsexuals have no problem with the term. I believe that to be more the case know than I did then. > [@Marley23](#): > > I have no idea where the consensus lies. But yes, we don’t not have enough information. Maybe **kimera’s** research will enlighten us. \*For the record, in the first post box, **marley23** is conveying a sentiment of mine, not his. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/34 "2006-03-26T14:20:24Z")
Getting back to the OP, if we are going to pit **Ensign Edison** I nominate this little exchange between [cerberus,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223437&postcount=25)[EE](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223449&postcount=26) and [cerberus](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223598&postcount=27) again. Posts 25, 26, and 27 for those playing along at home. Cerberus was trying to fight ignorance help define some terms for those who aren’t in the know, and EE insists that Arquette can invent any term he/she damn well pleases. Fine I’m cool with that. So if you spot any perceived misspellings or grammar errors in this post, they aren’t really errors, cause I invented them as correct spelling/grammar. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/35 "2006-03-26T17:17:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Getting back to the OP, if we are going to pit **Ensign Edison** I nominate this little exchange between [cerberus,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223437&postcount=25)[EE](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223449&postcount=26) and [cerberus](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7223598&postcount=27) again. Posts 25, 26, and 27 for those playing along at home. > Cerberus was trying to fight ignorance help define some terms for those who aren’t in the know, and EE insists that Arquette can invent any term he/she damn well pleases. Fine I’m cool with that. So if you spot any perceived misspellings or grammar errors in this post, they aren’t really errors, cause I invented them as correct spelling/grammar. > :wally Jesus fucking Christ, I apologized and clarified that I was just adding to his posts, not contradicting him. I didn’t want a thread about whether Alexis is a “real” transwoman and that’s what the thread was becoming. I think it’s hateful to imply that people aren’t “really” trans because they fail some test the speaker has for real transness. So I asked that the thread be closed. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/36 "2006-03-26T17:19:08Z")
Oh and by the way…you’re a fucking moron, lev. I WAS THE ONE WHO USED THE WORD TRANNY IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE in that thread. Pitting me for demanding that nobody ever use it is incredibly dumb. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/37 "2006-03-26T18:16:40Z")
> [@Ensign Edison](#): > > I think it’s hateful to imply that people aren’t “really” trans because they fail some test the speaker has for real transness. Is it? Not all people who identify as trans actually are. There are crazy/disturbed people who identify as trans for a variety of reasons. There are also people who think they are trans but then realize that they aren’t. By blinding accepting everyone who claims to be trans we do a disservice both to those individuals who are simply confused and to those who actually are trans. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/38 "2006-03-26T18:25:26Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > Is it? Not all people who identify as trans actually are. There are crazy/disturbed people who identify as trans for a variety of reasons. There are also people who think they are trans but then realize that they aren’t. By blinding accepting everyone who claims to be trans we do a disservice both to those individuals who are simply confused and to those who actually are trans. Well, it’s rude, anyway. It’s always rude, when someone says “I am this” to say “No you’re not and I can prove it”. If you’re going to do that, you’d better have a lot more proof that “I don’t think trans people ever act that way” or whatever. And frankly, no, I don’t fucking agree that it’s our job to decide whether every trans person is “confused”, any more than it’s anybody’s job to decide whether a gay person is “confused”, even though some do change their minds. ---
**Author:** ![kimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f0a364/32.png) [@kimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/39 "2006-03-26T18:38:49Z")
BTW, **Marley23** , it appears you were right about it being a generational thing. Most of the people who responded to my question the first time I asked were in their early 20s. Here’s the results from the two boards I posted on where there were wider age ranges. 1 Board - 20 votes 10 - It’s offensive (50%), 4 - I use it (20%), 4 - I don’t like it (20%), 2 - I don’t car either way (10%). Reasons for objection stated: I associate it with porn 2nd Board - 15 votes 5 - It’s offensive (33.3%), 4 - I use it (26.7%), 4 - I don’t like it (26.7%), 2 - I don’t care either way (13.3) Reasons for objection stated: I associate it with cars. I only want to be called a woman. I use it among fellow trans people but I don’t like it when random people call me it. It depends on context. Now that we have a wider sample size, I now think it is disrespectful to use the terms outside of friends. However, I still don’t think it’s anywhere near the level of nigger/cunt. Ensign Edison, no one said that to her. You asked what the impact would be and several people said that they had trouble accepting her as a woman because of x, y, z. No one said that they could prove it. Furthermore, I never implied that it was our “job” to decide about -every- trans person. When there are clearly crazy/deranged people who identify as trans then I will stand up and challenge their gender identity. A while back, the online trans community had a problem with a pedo who identify as a mtf because he had better access to kids that way. He was chased off all the forums/irc channels and rightly so. ---
**Author:** ![Ensign\_Edison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ab992/32.png) [@Ensign\_Edison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ensign_Edison)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907/40 "2006-03-26T18:42:28Z")
> [@kimera](#): > > Now that we have a wider sample size, I now think it is disrespectful to use the terms outside of friends. However, I still don’t think it’s anywhere near the level of nigger/cunt. That was Eve’s claim, not mine. I still think she may have meant that like those words, there is controversy surrounding its use. > [@](#): > > Ensign Edison, no one said that to her. You asked what the impact would be and several people said that they had trouble accepting her as a woman because of x, y, z. No one said that they could prove it. Right. So they’re refusing to accept her as a woman without proof that she is not trans. kimera, you’re always crowing about how open-minded you are and how many queer friends you have, so I’m kind of surprised you don’t understand how that is an anti-trans thing to do. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, I never implied that it was our “job” to decide about -every- trans person. When there are clearly crazy/deranged people who identify as trans then I will stand up and challenge their gender identity. A while back, the online trans community had a problem with a pedo who identify as a mtf because he had better access to kids that way. He was chased off all the forums/irc channels and rightly so. Are you saying that Alexis is clearly deranged and dangerous to the community? Do you really think those people refusing to accept her as a woman think that? Do you not see the ignorance in that thread, with people announcing that “all drag queens are only like that on stage” or whatever? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ensign-edison-fine-i-wont-use-the-term-tranny-screw-you-though/349907.md?page=3)