# Enteprise "The Forgotten" (Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 27, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376 "2004-04-27T23:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/61 "2004-04-30T02:18:15Z")
We look for warp coils. Warp coils to make us go see Degra. We are smart, I’ll tell you whut. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/62 "2004-04-30T02:26:04Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Am I the only one confused by the Quantum fluctuations? He bought Daniel’s story that they must co operate. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/63 "2004-04-30T02:30:04Z")
Oh yeah. Next week should be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/64 "2004-04-30T02:31:30Z")
Did Daniels specificly reference Degra? Or just the situation? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/65 "2004-04-30T02:39:36Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Did Daniels specificly reference Degra? Or just the situation? Just the situation; that Humans and Xindi must be on the same side. Maybe that’s why Cap’n Leap is pissed; he really wants to whack Degra and Sloth Boy and stick them in a drawer in the Enterprise Trophy Room. He can roll them out and look at them whenever he is in a bad mood. Or a good mood. Maybe just for the hell of it, with coffee in the morning or during half time at the water polo game. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/66 "2004-04-30T02:45:55Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > [ahem…](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/ENT/episode/125700.html) Fortunately, as it turns out, this is one of the few _Enterprise_ episodes where they **didn’t** violate canon. Their communications with the Romulans were audio-only, so the ST:TOS admonition that no one in the Federation had ever **seen** what a Romulan **looks** like still holds true. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/67 "2004-04-30T04:31:26Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Same way with Romulan War. 2156 to 2160 (_Balance of Terror_ TOS, _The Defector_ TNG) Again, maybe this will just happen with no set up. I recall that the TOS info on the Romulan war was that this was fought with old nuclear weapons. So if they do the Romulan War in Enterprise, I can’t imagine Archer and Malcolm wanting to give up those fancy new photonic torpedoes, in favor of old style nukes… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/68 "2004-04-30T04:39:12Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Fortunately, as it turns out, this is one of the few _Enterprise_ episodes where they **didn’t** violate canon. > > Their communications with the Romulans were audio-only, so the ST:TOS admonition that no one in the Federation had ever **seen** what a Romulan **looks** like still holds true. True – and I wasn’t attempting to claim a violation. Just responding to a post that said “we haven’t encountered Romulans yet”. Even if it wasn’t face to face, I’d say that episode qualifies as an “encounter”. 🙂 I was glad to see that they didn’t do Viewscreen communications on that one. **Aes** – I’d have to agree that the failure from earlier series (later in time) to mention momentous events from this series is no huge deal… I’ll just suspend disbelief and pretend they talked about history off duty, or in the men’s room, or something. I would consider canon violations to be specific occurrences that contradict previously established events. (like if they don’t fight a war with the Romulans pretty damn soon!) ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/69 "2004-04-30T04:53:48Z")
My commentary will be shorter than usual (see below). 🙂 I loved Trip’s performance. I felt his fear and anger and loss. Archer is always confusing. He is conflicted by his own ideas even when he takes each side. He feels bad about putting his people in harms way and he feels bad about stealing a warp coil. He feels bad about almost suffocating a prisoner and bad about wiping Degra’s memory and deceiving him, and yet he snaps at Trip who gets angry at the enemy and T’Pol who points out Archer’s own concerns with “losing humanity.” One minute he sympathizes with the crew and the next he yells at them - if they yell at Degra. Maybe Archer got sprayed with Xindi-Primate Musk and is imprinting. I can’t see the ship venting so much warp plasma without depleting their reseveres. I just made up that the warp plasma was sending EM interference into the EVA’s com systems and giving them static. The rest is a bit of a blur, as have been some of these last episodes and commentary. You see… * * * We’ve just had our third baby. A baby girl after two boys. I didn’t have a dad growing up but realized after talking to friends that I was going to have to make up how to be a father anyway, so I didn’t have to worry that I didn’t know how to be a father. The boys are great and Katelyn and mom are doing well. I should have started a MPSIMS Thread but 1) it’s late and I’m tired, 2) I’m on a 26Kb modem until I get back to work, and 3) my SDMB friends are here in these threads. I had to stop being stingy and reveal something about my life since I’ve listened with respect and fear 😛 to all that’s been said here. Thanks for listening and I’ll be back later when time and my faculties permit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/70 "2004-04-30T05:11:41Z")
Bad ass, **Corner**. I’m glad to hear it. If I ever have the (mis)fortune to have kids, I want a little girl. They’re so much nicer than boys and I wouldn’t have to go watch her play in all those boring sports tournaments either. Watch her become a tomboy though. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/71 "2004-04-30T05:17:59Z")
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4810358#post4810358](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=4810358#post4810358) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/72 "2004-04-30T07:32:08Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > If I ever have the (mis)fortune to have kids, I want a little girl. They’re so much nicer than boys Wanna bet? The only difference between girls and boys is that girls will **pretend** to be helpless more often. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/73 "2004-04-30T14:37:43Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > The most glaring canon violation for ENT was the first episode, _Broken Bow_. > > It violates canon in having Klingons. _Day of the Dove_ TOS and _First Contact_ TNG establish that first contact with Klingons was 2218. > > So far, ENT has concerned events of the dates April 2151 to August 2154. > > The first starship to bear the name Enterprise was the _SS Enterprise_ (date and regitry unknown) prior to the events of TOS (ref- ST:TMP) > > Suliban. No reference in any other series, though they are major players in this series. > > Temporal Cold War. We saw plenty of future Star/Time Fleet type stuff in both VOY and DS9. Never a mention. Could be explained away as having been resolved so that this timeline doesn’t exist (or is at least invisible), but that is a RESET copout, imho. > > United Federation of Planets will be established May 8, 2161 (_The Outcast_ TNG) with Tellarites, Andorians, Vulcans, and someone from Alpha Centauri. So… maybe this will happen real quick. > > Same way with Romulan War. 2156 to 2160 (_Balance of Terror_ TOS, _The Defector_ TNG) Again, maybe this will just happen with no set up. > > Most of the other canon violations my be said to be ENT’s canon. But, they do screw around a bit with all the other series. Why did we see Borg in 2152? Why is their no mention of The Expanse, XIndi, Suliban, Temporal Cold War, Sphere Builders, Xindi/Earth Alliance in any of the other series. Sure, can be explained away with reset button, or saying that it just never came up, but that would be a cop out, Many eps of the other series refenced important events of the past. These huge things in ENT would’ve been at least alluded to. Oh well… > And as for StarFleet predating the Federation, _Charlie X_ - TOS, established that the United Earth Space Probe Agency was the operating agency in charge of NCC-1701. But, we all know that was a mistake and it is never discussed anymore. 🙂 > > So, that’s my take on ENT canon violations. Thank you, **NoClueBoy** , you covered this both thoroughly and concisely! 🙂 So yeah, -exactly- what NCB says here. And I can’t believe I forgot about the Romulans! ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/74 "2004-04-30T14:53:26Z")
…before I posted above. Ah well. Perhaps it is better articulated this way: There are Trek fans who feel that canon is being ignored, and there are Trek fans who don’t–and it doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not either are legitimate Trek fans. I just happen to be in the “canon is being violated” Trek Fan camp. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/75 "2004-04-30T15:16:31Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Wanna bet? > > The only difference between girls and boys is that girls will **pretend** to be helpless more often. 80% of my family is women. I prefer their company to the other 20%. I have a general idea of which gender I prefer to hang out with. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/76 "2004-04-30T15:19:54Z")
And go reply to **Corner** ’s thread in MPSIMS or I’ll give everyone galley service! ---
**Author:** ![BrianJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/54ee81/32.png) [@BrianJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrianJ)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/77 "2004-04-30T16:56:54Z")
Just some thoughts… It wouldn’t be Star Trek without Klingons and Romulans. However, they didn’t really keep with the original history as laid out. The Borg episode seemed to fit for me. The Ferengi showed up in one early episode. I didnt think they appeared anywhere near Earth/Federation space until DS9… ‘Deep space’ The Holodecks were fairly new technology in Next Generation weren’t they? And yet they make an appearance in another ENT episode. However they are not Human technology yet. The Humans trade it to the Klingons though… IIRC ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/78 "2004-04-30T17:35:57Z")
> [@BrianJ](#): > > The Ferengi showed up in one early episode. I didnt think they appeared anywhere near Earth/Federation space until DS9… ‘Deep space’ > > The Holodecks were fairly new technology in Next Generation weren’t they? And yet they make an appearance in another ENT episode. However they are not Human technology yet. The Humans trade it to the Klingons though… IIRC The Ferenghi first showed up in an early STNG episode. They were described by Data as “Yankee Traders” although they seemed more war like than economically minded. Shimmerman appeared as one. I could go either way with the holodeck. It would be egocentric to think humans would invent everything first. The weren’t as sophisticated as those on Enterprise. On the other hand, it seemed like those ST novels that threw in items just to let you know the writer actually saw Trek. I was under the impression that the Klingons couldn’t duplicate it because of the opposable thumb issue. I would enjoy “historical” episodes like a thread on the Romulan War as someone already posted, but to much of it would seem like those “I read Trek!” novels. Authors must consider it like an artist being told to copy a painting. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/79 "2004-05-01T05:44:53Z")
**Aes** , have you ever babysat? I gotta tell ya, the girls are much tougher, wilier, and fussier. The boys are generally sweeter and easier. But I don’t mind either, in the end. Trekkin’ around the boob tube: There were TWO Trek references on tonight’s Joan (yes, I got it on tape), and one of the troubled folks that Abby has been counseling on ER was speaking Klingon 2 eps ago. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376/80 "2004-05-01T05:50:34Z")
I have a younger sister, three nieces, and a younger female cousin that I’ve watched numerous times in the past. Aside from one male cousin (who used to be great but now is your stereotypical asshole teen), I prefer all five of them to either my nephew or my other male cousin, who I would love to strangle. I have a bit of experience. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enteprise-the-forgotten-spoilers/242376.md?page=5)