# Enterprise "Carbon Creek" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2002, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560 "2002-09-25T03:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/21 "2002-09-26T19:10:26Z")
Wish \*\* I \*\* had a sonic screwdriver. I’d use it beat some sense into this ass-wacked computer. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/22 "2002-09-26T19:19:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rue DeDay \* > \*\* > > If you HAVE a sonic screwdriver, you’re gonna USE a sonic screwdriver. > \*\* If you keep using it, you’re gonna go blind!! ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/23 "2002-09-26T19:39:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balduran \* > \*\* > They lied a little too much for me especially when there are so many shows that have mentioned how they never lie. . \*\* Ahhh I think it has been pretty well established that the biggest Vulcan lie is “Vulcans are incapable of lying”. I think they have repeated that lie so much others just accept it. In Star Trek (TOS) Spock had used deception several times (“There is a multilegged creature on your shoulder”) and even outright lied “In the emergancy we never had time to view the last orders”) Even a pure bred Vulcan like Surak has lied. Just cause they say they can’t don’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/24 "2002-09-26T21:18:25Z")
The only one I recall saying that “Vulcans are incapable of lying” is Data, who shared his knowledge with the ship’s computer. Perhaps the Federation’s data is innacurate (or at least incomplete) regarding Vulcan lies? And I missed the episode because I wasn’t home for the first half-hour. I’ll have to catch it Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/25 "2002-09-26T21:49:32Z")
I caught that lying thing too, I assumed the Vulcans hadn’t decided that lying was forbidden yet. Although thats just an assumption. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/26 "2002-09-26T22:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*The only one I recall saying that “Vulcans are incapable of lying” is Data, who shared his knowledge with the ship’s computer. \*\* Well, actually, in “The Enterprise Incident”, Spock tells the Romulan commander that Vulcans are incapable of lying, but that’s a lie he tells to get her to trust him so that he and Kirk can carry out their mission. I get the impression that the statement “Vulcans don’t lie.” is similar to the statement “Vulcans don’t kill.” While Vulcan ethics frown on lying or killing, a Vucan will lie or kill if he or she believes it’s neccesary to do so. Or, like Tuvok puts it in one of the Voyager episodes: > [@](#): > > Seven of Nine: Commander, am I correct in assuming that Vulcans are incapable of lying? > Tuvok: We are capable of telling lies, however, I have never found it prudent or necsessary to do so. > Seven: You have never lied? > Tuvok: Only under orders from a superior officer. ---
**Author:** ![TheeGrumpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@TheeGrumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheeGrumpy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/27 "2002-09-26T22:56:54Z")
Vulcans are also allowed to lie, as long as they call it an “exaggeration” or an “error.” ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/28 "2002-09-26T23:18:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balduran \* > \*\*Overall I found the show amusing, but I think there was some problems. > > One of the arguments for leaving the humans in the mine to die was that since they live to only 70 years, you are just delaying their death by a short time. This seems a really poor argument from a race that has met all sorts of other beings which probably have a range of lifespans. Not only that, but the people trapped were also family providers.\*\* No, the only argument offered to leave the humans to die was that saving them would contaminate their culture (which, we learned last season, is something vulcans have always been very worried about). Mistral’s position that their life was worth the chance of contamination; its brevity was wassername’s way of saying “No, it’s not.” –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/29 "2002-09-26T23:21:36Z")
Data says “Vulcans are incapable of lying” whereupon Spock lies and says “That is correct”. Vulcans lie like Jews eat pork. Very rarely and for reasons like saving a life. (If the Doctor says you are anemic and you must eat pig liver or you will die.) ^:)^ ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/30 "2002-09-27T07:04:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheeGrumpy \* > \*\*Vulcans are also allowed to lie, as long as they call it an “exaggeration” or an “error.” \*\* * * * Or as Valeris put it in ST6, “a choice.” ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/31 "2002-09-27T12:55:08Z")
Data had information that was Known in the federation. My guess is the Vulcan PR dept worked for a century to make others believe Vulcans are incapable of lying. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/32 "2002-09-27T13:05:35Z")
…which was lying. But if Vulcans can’t lie… I can see where Data would get into that. Ah! I bet Riker told him. “Screw you, Pinnochio. Who gets more fan mail now?” ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/33 "2002-09-27T17:01:35Z")
I really can’t see Riker saying that. I lie, I can see it. Wow. Creepy. My vote for Sneakiest Species in the Galaxy: Our old pals the Vulcans. (They were narrowly edged out for Funniest Ears in the Galaxy" by the Ferengi) ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/34 "2002-09-27T17:21:35Z")
Still haven’t seen it (too busy to watch the tape). Vulcans can easily lie and still hold logic (or at least their own version of logic.) Remember that one serial killer Vulcan used logic to explain why he was wasting people. ---
**Author:** ![ChuckForbin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecb155/32.png) [@ChuckForbin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckForbin)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/35 "2002-09-27T18:59:35Z")
I know there’s always a lot to nit about, but I for one thought this was one of the most entertaining shows they’ve done. Vulcans playing pool, watching Lucy, bald faced lying - c’mon people ! Did you ever think you’d see that ? Oh, and by the way, I like the song. There goes my credibility, I guess. I may as well mention then that I think T’Pol is one of the most interesting ST chararacters ever. And not just because she’s so hot, and my seven years are almost up. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/36 "2002-09-27T22:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ChuckForbin \* > \*\* I like the song. \*\* You’re outta here. We can take all the rest, but not that, Dude. ^:)^ ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/37 "2002-09-27T22:49:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ChuckForbin \* > \*\*Vulcans playing pool, watching Lucy, bald faced lying - c’mon people ! Did you ever think you’d see that ? > . \*\* Well, yes, actually, but i live a rich fantasy life… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/38 "2002-09-27T23:15:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by h.sapiens \* > \*\* Velcro was invented by a Swiss man named George de **Mestral**. \*\* It’s true! It’s true! Star Trek is REAL! I knew it! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/39 "2002-09-27T23:33:42Z")
You doubted? Didn’t you have Faith of the Heart? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560/40 "2002-09-28T00:41:10Z")
I’ll get you for that… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-carbon-creek/129560.md?page=3)