# Enterprise: Cogenitor (SPOILERS) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 29, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022 "2003-04-29T22:41:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/21 "2003-05-01T02:35:55Z")
Or a Panda! ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/22 "2003-05-01T03:17:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\*Well, wouldn’t you know it, [Travis didn’t get a body scan](http://www.startrekfanclub.com/productDetails.aspx?itemID=1383&CategoryID=62&BLink=True&Page=2&STo=1383). \*\* “_The intrepid Enterprise NX-01 helmsman includes 14 points of articulation, as well as an open Starfleet Communicator, a closed Starfleet Scanner, a Starfleet Phase Pistol and **2 sets of hands**._” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/23 "2003-05-01T03:25:39Z")
So… Travis is related to **Tars**? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/24 "2003-05-01T06:01:59Z")
My secret shame… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/25 "2003-05-01T06:04:04Z")
Dude, use your familial connections to get hooked up with Hoshi. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/26 "2003-05-01T06:05:10Z")
Wait, why’m I telling you this? Don’t! _NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!_ ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/27 "2003-05-01T06:06:16Z")
Whoops. I broke the thread. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/28 "2003-05-01T06:09:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*\*Dude, use your familial connections to get hooked up with Hoshi. \*\* What’s to say i didn’t? ::smokes cigar:: ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/29 "2003-05-01T06:14:19Z")
Hoshi just called me on my cell phone 'cause we’re cool like that and she says you’re lying. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/30 "2003-05-01T06:18:15Z")
Hey, i was watching her this whole time in her apartment from here in the bushes and she didn’t call anyone! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/31 "2003-05-01T06:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*[Porthos!](http://www.startrekfanclub.com/productDetails.aspx?itemID=4609&CategoryID=91&BLink=True&Page=0&STo=4609) \*\* * * * Awwwwww. I’ll take two. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/32 "2003-05-01T06:20:58Z")
That was her effeminate brother… uh… Yoshi. Yeah, that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/33 "2003-05-01T06:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > \*\*That was her effeminate brother… uh… Yoshi. Yeah, that’s it. \*\* now i’m getting scared…:eek: ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/34 "2003-05-01T06:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by drewbert \* > \*\*Too early for the thread on next week’s episode to appear, so I’ll comment on the trailer here: > > I am Phlox of Borg. You will maintain a positive attitude. Resist, and you will be assimilated. > \*\* * * * _sigh_ Well, at least there are a couple of eps after that. Then again…I always give 'em a chance. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/35 "2003-05-01T06:36:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vivalostwages \* > \*\*------------------------------------------------------------- > Awwwwww. I’ll take two. \*\* * * * Um, as long as it doesn’t come with any Plushie Porthos Poo that I’d have to scoop up. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/36 "2003-05-01T06:37:08Z")
In the Other “Cogenitor” Thread, there’s no end of people gushing on and on about this episode like it’s the best thing to hit television Monday Night Football. Allow me to be the nay-saying fly in the ointment: The idea of an “alien” (read humans-with-bumps-on-their-foreheads) species needing 3 sexes to reproduce is, of course, not a new one. There was an episode of the old _Alien Nation_ TV series that featured this very concept: The 3rd sex was called the “binnaum,” the main binnaum character was a mentally handicapped Tanktonese sarcastically named Albert Einstein, and Albert typically “serviced” up to 700 couples a year. The fact that the Cogenitor character in this _Enterprise_ episode was also (at least at first) undereducated may have even been inspired by that particular episode of _Alien Nation_. (And what do they need a 3rd gender **for** any more, if they have super-advanced technology? They should be able to synthesize any enzymes they might need for “artificial cogenity.”) But the similarities to an earlier SF TV series was not what I wanted to complain about the most. It seems that **every single time** an alien culture has an “underclass” on _Star Trek_, the lower-classed members of that culture are actually just as capable as the upper-classed members of that culture but are repressed/downtrodden/prejudiced against by that culture:[ul][li]The black-on-the-left people from Cheron were every bit as good as the black-on-the-right people from Cheron; the only thing keeping one side down was racial bigotry.[/li][li]Ferengi females are every bit as capable as Ferengi males, but sexism kept their status low.[/li][li]And now, Vissian cogenitors are every bit as smart as Vissian males and females, but they’re kept penned up like slaves.[/ul][/li]These aren’t **alien** cultural issues at all! They’re **human** cultural issues with bumps taped to their foreheads. You know what would’ve been neat? You know what would have been **really really** neat?? If Trip had snuck into the Cogenitor’s quarters, and tried to teach her/him how to read, and discovered that **the Vissians weren’t oppressing her/him, she/he really _was_ as dumb as a sack of hammers!** That would have been neat. It would have been different and new and **totally** unexpected. But nooooooo, a _Star Trek_ series can never take those sorts of risks. The dumb-but-vociferous mainstream viewers might suddenly decide that _Enterprise_ was being “racist” if they portrayed a **totally alien** species as being made up of individuals with differing mental capacities. Nope, they had to telegraph the “we’re going to present an oppressed, slave-like underclass” message so far ahead of time that you could see in coming an Astronomical Unit away, then hit you over the head with it repeatedly, and then at the end try to make it seem “original” by throwing in **another** kind of moral message about the importance of following the yet-to-be-invented Prime Directive. And, of course, since the Vissians have such super-advanced technology which could teach Earth scientists how to solve all their problems, we never ever have any contact with the Vissians again during the 23rd or 24th centuries. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/37 "2003-05-01T06:37:23Z")
How disturbing…My 2400th post was about dumbasses, and my 2500th was about poo. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/38 "2003-05-01T11:39:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*You know what would’ve been neat? You know what would have been **really really** neat?? If Trip had snuck into the Cogenitor’s quarters, and tried to teach her/him how to read, and discovered that **the Vissians weren’t oppressing her/him, she/he really _was_ as dumb as a sack of hammers!** That would have been neat. It would have been different and new and **totally** unexpected. > > \*\* Ack! While that may seem like a new and totally unexpected plot twist to you, tracer, it would have made it worse, IMO, for the Cogenitor to have been treated as “lesser than” due to being not as smart. Viewers are still going to relate to the story on a human level, because we’re humans–treating the cogenitors as an object (calling them “it,” not providing education, etc.) is going to seem very wrong on many levels to a lot of folks watching the show. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/39 "2003-05-01T15:48:13Z")
Precisely my point. If it’s a **human** level that the audience is supposed to relate to the story on, if the issue is something that **humans** could find themselves in an exact one-for-one analogy of, then _use humans to demonstrate the point, not aliens!_ Ursula LeGuin’s novel _The Left Hand of Darkness_ featured the planet Winter, whose native population were gender-neutral for 2/3 of the year. In the remaining 1/3 of the year, during the time of “Kemmer,” everybody would randomly become either male or female. Totally alien concept, right? **Wrong.** The inhabitants of Winter were a lost **human** colony that had evolved this weird ambisexuality as an adaptation to Planet Winter’s climate. **That** was how LeGuin made the natives on Winter into people the reader could relate to. She made them **people.** What do we get in “Cogenitor”? An alien species that’s undergone enough parallel evolution to look like humans, and even **act** like humans to the extent that their males and females get “married,” and, oh, by the way, they have a 3rd sex. And so that the audience can “relate” to the fact that this 3rd sex lives a life more appropriate to a domesticated horse than to a human being, they make the 3rd sex be just as smart as everyone else and turn it into a slavery/oppression issue. There ways they could’ve made the Cogenitor into a drooling moron without it seeming “wrong”: don’t have “it” speak, have the Vissians mention the fact that all historical attempts to educate Cogenitors had failed, have Phlox’s mental scans confirm that such a creature had the approximate mental capacities of a chimpanzee, etc… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2003, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022/40 "2003-05-01T15:51:06Z")
Tracer, was Trip right or wrong? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-cogenitor-spoilers/172022.md?page=3)