# Enterprise E² \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628 "2004-05-05T13:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/1 "2004-05-05T13:09:51Z")
So, it falls to me this week. I’ll see it in about 11 hrs. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/2 "2004-05-05T13:23:09Z")
[Preview of the episode.](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/ENT/episode/4536.html) Time travel with a twist. Will it be another Reset Button™? ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/3 "2004-05-05T13:39:12Z")
13 hours for me…or 11 if I skip the gym and catch the one on UPN ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/4 "2004-05-05T14:48:53Z")
Okay, I guess I’ll start the discussion: Bergama misses Voyager. They really wanted VOY to last the 70 years it would them to get home. Stupid TV execs made them cut it down to a tenth. _Rendeveus With Rama_ was an exceptional story. This won’t be (prediction). Instead, it’ll be more like Conan Cheif O’Brian doing a skit on What If They Mated? There will be some serious hand wringing based on whether they should “reset” things because doing so would eliminate sentient beings who have already existed for a hundred years. Then, the REAL Harry Kim will come back from the dead and tell them all to “BITE ME!” Of course, they just might do a good job. This might become one of the most requested Trek eps of all time in the next 38 yrs. I want it to be god. I want it to be _Year Of Hell_ stellar. But, it won’t be. It will Bergama Reset suck. Please, prove me wrong, ENT. Prove me wrong. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/5 "2004-05-05T15:03:13Z")
The “gym”? What’s that, a variant of “Jim”? 🙂 [ul][_]It seems like Lorian is the child of T’Pol and Trip. Do I here a big “Duh” from the peanut gallery?[_]Karyn Archer is part, what? That’s not a Klingon or Bajoran nose ridge. Did the Illyrian have that ridge?[_]The ship’s bridge seems to evolve an extra scaffold and a monitor.[_]What are the odds we have Another Reset?[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/6 "2004-05-05T15:16:44Z")
check out this pic… [http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200404/ent-073-lorian/240x320.jpg](http://www.startrek.com/imageuploads/200404/ent-073-lorian/240x320.jpg) doesn’t Lorian bear more than a passing resemblence to a certain U.S. president? 😉 (minus the pointy ears, though) ---
**Author:** ![the\_Lady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bb73d2/32.png) [@the\_Lady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_Lady)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/7 "2004-05-05T15:42:40Z")
The gym? It’s this place I go to so I can ride a stationary bike set in a circle with a blonde person who weighs altogether as much as my left leg yells at me. Oh wait - today’s Wednesday. Make that a Japanese person who weighs as much as my left leg. And regarding the epidsode…now that I know a bit more about it (my usual channel doesn’t play “coming up next week” teasers) - I just don’t know. Like NCB says - it might be good. It might also be a whole new level of suck. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/8 "2004-05-05T15:54:27Z")
Perusing the episode synopsis I noticed that writing credit is given to Michael Sussman. And “The Forgotten” was written by Chris Black & David A. Goodman. And “Damage” by Phyllis Strong. I don’t know about how writing tasks are divided, but perhaps the writers of the various episodes are writing too separately and without enough overriding continuity supervision by head writers or Bergama. Or maybe even too much! Anyone want to take 3 minutes and correlate all of the good and bad episodes with the various writers to see if there is a trend? Oh, and take another 4 minutes (since you’ll be on a roll) and do that with all of the other series’ episodes. da [sup]Di[/sup] da [sub]Do[/sub] da [sup]Di[/sup] da {theme from Jeopardy continues…} ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/9 "2004-05-05T16:06:48Z")
[Startrek.com](http://Startrek.com) summary of episode: > [@](#): > > While on their way to face the Xindi Council, Archer and crew encounter a twin NX-01 manned by their own descendants, who warn that the subspace shortcut they intend to take will throw them 100 years into the past, ensuring Earth’s destruction. [Startrek.com](http://Startrek.com) summary of DS9 season 5 episode “Children of Time”: > [@](#): > > In the Gamma Quadrant, Dax insists on investigating a planet surrounded by an energy barrier. But the barrier cripples the Defiant and causes Kira to be “duplicated” for a moment — she will die without eventual medical attention back on Deep Space Nine. A colony lives on the planet, and the leader, Miranda O’Brien, reveals that in two days, when the Defiant departs, the barrier will cause the ship to crash on the planet — 200 years in the past. Stranded for life, the crew will found this colony. The planet, Gaia, is populated by their descendants! It’s a wonderful episode to rip off from, but it does have huge fumbling potentional. Knock on wood… ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/10 "2004-05-05T16:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > The “gym”? What’s that, a variant of “Jim”? It’s the “He’s Dead Gym” ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/11 "2004-05-05T16:19:14Z")
Sussman wrote “Hatchery”, “Stratagem”, “Twilight”, and “Anomaly”. That’s three good to one bad. Not bad odds… ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/12 "2004-05-05T18:17:49Z")
Haven’t seen it yet, obviously. Will have to wait until I get to Oregon and for viva to mail them to me there to see both this one, last week’s, and next week’s as well. Trek Marathon! W007! ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/13 "2004-05-05T19:24:17Z")
I just have some thoughts about the continuity and logic that need to be addressed in the episode. I had a longer tirade, but I thought I would spare you. Summary: the Enterprise travelled the corridor and wound up 100 years in the past. The descendants with the descendants-Enterprise (D-Enterprise) meets their ancestors to dissuade them.[ol][_]Why didn’t the descendants go start their own life on Vulcan, Denobula, or elsewhere?[_]How did the D-Enterprise stay serviceable for the many years it took the descendants to grow up and learn how to run her?[_]If they can accurately travel the corridor to meet their ancestors, why don’t they go back further and stop the Xindi weapon?[_]Or at least join forces Now and stop the weapon?[_]Why does Lorian look old since he should age more slowly as a half-Vulcan?[_]Why aren’t Phlox’s kids on Denobula since Phlox presumably is (re: Twilight).Why do I keep up with Star Trek and rarely find time to keep up with the news?[/ol]Any other thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/14 "2004-05-05T19:38:17Z")
[QUOTE=Corner Case] I just have some thoughts about the continuity and logic that need to be addressed in the episode. I had a longer tirade, but I thought I would spare you. Summary: the Enterprise travelled the corridor and wound up 100 years in the past. The descendants with the descendants-Enterprise (D-Enterprise) meets their ancestors to dissuade them.[ol] [li]Why didn’t the descendants go start their own life on Vulcan, Denobula, or elsewhere?[/li][li]How did the D-Enterprise stay serviceable for the many years it took the descendants to grow up and learn how to run her?[/li][li]If they can accurately travel the corridor to meet their ancestors, why don’t they go back further and stop the Xindi weapon?[/li][li]Or at least join forces Now and stop the weapon?[/li][li]Why does Lorian look old since he should age more slowly as a half-Vulcan?[/li][li]Why aren’t Phlox’s kids on Denobula since Phlox presumably is (re: Twilight).[/li][li]Why do I keep up with Star Trek and rarely find time to keep up with the news?[/ol]Any other thoughts?[/li][/QUOTE] As for Lorian … well, the time-frame we’ve seen from the info we’ve been given is 100 years… so while most of the crew is presumably the great-grandchildren of the original crew, Lorian is probably a child of the original crew directly. 100 years won’t make a Vulcan ancient, but it could certainly turn the hair grey. Anybody else thinking it might just be a mind-screw - that in fact the crew encounters some kind of telepathic organism(s) that imitates their descendants based on what it gleans from their mind? (( These pathetic bi-lobes certainly seem to be thinking about time travel a lot… )) ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/15 "2004-05-05T19:41:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Why didn’t the descendants go start their own life on Vulcan, Denobula, or elsewhere? > How did the D-Enterprise stay serviceable for the many years it took the descendants to grow up and learn how to run her? > If they can accurately travel the corridor to meet their ancestors, why don’t they go back further and stop the Xindi weapon? > Or at least join forces Now and stop the weapon? > Why aren’t Phlox’s kids on Denobula since Phlox presumably is (re: Twilight). Oh. Maybe the D-Enterprise’s Warp Drive crapped out entirely. So they’ve been stuck in local sectors for 100 years. So they’d be useless as assistance… and for the current Enterprise to go back in time would cripple their own Warp Drive. ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/16 "2004-05-05T19:42:40Z")
Last week (at the end of _The Forgotten_), Degra told Archer to watch out in the Nebula, there’s a species who preys on travelers. Right afterwards, they showed the preview with the people who were obviously children of the Enterprise crew. It was one little throwaway line, and didn’t have any reason to be there unless they were setting up an episode. I immediately thought that these “descendants” weren’t who they claimed to be – they were aliens in disguise, or some kind of mind control was going on, or something along those lines. Later, it occurred to me that with the loose writing on Enterprise, it could very well be an unused throwaway line. This episode probably is a time-travelling reset button episode. Still – especially after reading all of the objections from **Corner Case** – I think it would make much more sense to be a subtle alien attack then time travel. I think I’m setting myself up to be disappointed. I guess I’ll find out after watching it tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/17 "2004-05-05T23:41:23Z")
don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck don’t suck ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/18 "2004-05-06T00:02:15Z")
Teaser: Short recap and an old Vulcan woman. T’Pol? ---
**Author:** ![Wearia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Wearia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wearia)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/19 "2004-05-06T00:05:03Z")
Didn’t suck. Pretty good for a time travel trek actually. I won’t spoil it too much yet for you folks. Still had some nitpicks but whatever. Still liked it. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/20 "2004-05-06T00:12:35Z")
Act I: A friendly little chat 'tween T’Ppol and T’Ripp about their relationship. No sex. Damn. The K’Bonn? 60,000 kilometers away. Hmmm… “Ionize the hull.” How the hell would you do that? 😕 I’m liking that black Xindi humanoid. (African-Betelgeusian?) Okay, here’s the old ship. Who the hell did Quantum mate with to get this odd faced child? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628.md?page=2)