# Enterprise E² \[spoilers\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2004, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628 "2004-05-05T13:09:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/81 "2004-05-09T23:34:18Z")
Hadn’t posted yet, because I didn’t see the entire episode until last night. Now firstly, let me just state that contrary to what some of my prior posts may have seemed, I do like time travel shows. And Esquared was a very satisfying episode for me! I even like how at the end they Archer & T’Pol were discussing what the fate of the (other) Enterprise would have been - and it was -T’Pol- who pointed out that they still had the memory of them! -the “old” T’Pol make-up was very nicely done! I like T’Pol & Tripp too … I just keep thinking of how Spock came about via in-vitro fertilization, though. Gah. Maybe that Trellium-D changed her DNA too? 😉 -Lorien reminded me of an actor, I’m not exactly sure who, though! -Poor Malcolm! Well, maybe his luck will take an upward turn now, ya think? -Who was the Amanda that Phlox ended up with?! Sorry to come so late to the discussion … I had forgotten to put my tape in too, so had to wait until they aired the weekly repeat on Saturday night. -tarragon ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/82 "2004-05-09T23:45:54Z")
OK boys and girls, what vehicle does this remind you of? [http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apscience\_story.asp?category=1501&slug=European%20Space%20Shuttle](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apscience_story.asp?category=1501&slug=European%20Space%20Shuttle) ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/83 "2004-05-09T23:50:37Z")
> [@tarragon918](#): > > -Lorien reminded me of an actor, I’m not exactly sure who, though! [David Andrews](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0028625/) reminds me of a few people—an old teacher I had (also an actor and in a few old shows and movies) and, for some weird reason, Don Johnson. I don’t know why—he doesn’t look that much like Johnson. I think it’s something in the eyes. Huh. I liked the episode. I liked the idea that they could still remember the “other” Enterprise. I thought T’Pol’s make-up was lacking, though. Her lips should have been thinner (our lips thin as we age). But overall, it wasn’t _too_ bad. I liked how they made her eyes clouded over. I think that E2 and the crew with Lorien will be back sometime later. They are far too interesting. And Lorien is an intriging character—kind of like Spock, but with a sense of humor and no pointy eyebrows. (Well, okay, not _that_ much like Spock . . . ) ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/84 "2004-05-09T23:54:01Z")
I’ll be damned. Looking at David Andrews’ credits, it says (way at the bottom of the page) that he played a character named “Jake Crockett” on _Miami Vice_. I would assume he was playing a relative of Sonny Crockett (aka Don Johnson). I guess that explains why I always associated him with Don Johnson . . . ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2004, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/85 "2004-05-09T23:54:17Z")
> [@yosemite](#): > > [url=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0028625/] Her lips should have been thinner (our lips thin as we age). The only way to make those bbe sting duck lips smaller would be more plastic surgery, and look what happened to Michael Jackson’s nose. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/86 "2004-05-10T02:21:02Z")
Well, I thought “Amanda” was Crewman Cutler, but a quick check at the character list shows her first name as Elizabeth. No one on the official list has the first name of Amanda, so apparantly she is someone made up for that ep. Though there are a lot of people named by rank and last name only. Maybe we’ll see her in the future. THE FUTURE!!! ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/87 "2004-05-10T03:01:15Z")
I thought Amanda was Corporal Cole’s first name, but I could be wrong. I just figured she must be one of the MACOs. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/88 "2004-05-10T12:48:32Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > 'Toine, don’t get mad…\*) > \*Extry credit if you recognize and identify this reference. Ha! In Living Color. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/89 "2004-05-10T17:28:14Z")
Done to death before… check. Plot holes… check. But darnit… I liked it. Well done. GonzoGal thought that Lorien was a bit unbelievable as a character when hindering/attacking Archer’s Ent, but I’m willing to chalk it up as a lifetime of indoctrination to The Mission combined with guilt issues from the first probe. I guarantee we’ll see them again. But I doubt it will happen this season. Assuming Ent survives, I expect repercussions in season 5 or so. (c.f. Sela). Random thoughts: I guess poor Porthos ended up on the Bachelor list, like Reed, unless there are some other pooches on board we haven’t seen. I’m liking the friendship we see building between Hoshi and Mayweather. Only glimpses so far, but it’s something. The 2’Pol scene was very well done, nearly as seamless as some of the LOTR compositing moments. And Jolene is impressing me more and more as an actress. But I thought the old-age makeup was kind of… embarassingly bad. But then, old age makeup usually is. GonzoGal noticed this one too: Good Enterprise vs. Bad Enterprise apparently means blue phasers vs. red phasers. 🙂 Nice to see that the producers actually remembered that Vulcans and Humans can’t just breed normally. Also a nice touch to see that they were thinking ahead when the Xindi interrogated Archer about other starfleet ships. Usually we see that kind of foreshadowing hitting us like a hammer. This time it was more of an “oh yeah… I do remember that…” moment. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/90 "2004-05-10T17:49:17Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Nice to see that the producers actually remembered that Vulcans and Humans can’t just breed normally. A non canon novel mentioned that Spock was conceived _in vitro_, but is there canon on this? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/91 "2004-05-10T17:54:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A non canon novel mentioned that Spock was conceived _in vitro_, but is there canon on this? Boy, I knew Vulcans were tough, but to have to use cannons to administer _in vitro_? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/92 "2004-05-10T18:24:40Z")
They are certainly tougher than you are funny. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/93 "2004-05-10T19:57:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The only way to make those bbe sting duck lips smaller would be more plastic surgery, and look what happened to Michael Jackson’s nose. Which one? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/94 "2004-05-10T20:13:03Z")
> [@lurkernomore](#): > > Which one? I rest my case. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/95 "2004-05-10T20:52:33Z")
> [@CandidGamera](#): > > Ha! In Living Color. What do I win? Bragging rights. 😃 Specifically, it was Men on Film. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2004, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/96 "2004-05-10T23:32:29Z")
If we get a Season IV, Elf Boy’s Enterprise may be back next season. In an interview, Berman said he is planning several mini arcs (3 - 5 eps), including one, the season premeir, that would be set up by events in the Season III climax. [crosses fingers] ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/97 "2004-05-11T04:20:09Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > If nothing else, **Cervaise** liking it gives it some sort of novelty appeal. As I indicated I might in my long post above, I did watch this episode a second time. I can’t remember the last episode of _Enterprise_ I watched twice, let alone twice within a week. And I liked it again. I might even have liked it more the second time. So, if nothing else, this provides momentum to carry through the end of the season without any risk of giving up. Sure, there’s a nonzero chance the Big Finish might still suck, but this one episode was good enough to convince me to keep watching. My participation in next season, though (presuming there is one), is still on the block. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/98 "2004-05-11T04:23:04Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > And don’t forget the contribution of the Illudium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator. “Where’s the KABOOM?!?!! There’s _supposed_ to be a Xindi superweapon-shattering KABOOM!!!” ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/99 "2004-05-11T05:54:13Z")
> [@](#): > > from _gonzoron_ > I’m liking the friendship we see building between Hoshi and Mayweather. Only glimpses so far, but it’s something. Well, of the main characters, they have a natural reason for close comraderie… Travis: “Why are we in the fewest scenes?” Hoshi: “Yeaahhh…!” ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628/100 "2004-05-11T13:40:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A non canon novel mentioned that Spock was conceived _in vitro_, but is there canon on this? I though so, but perhaps not. I can’t find any in a cursory web search. Still, it’s ingrained in the trekker subconscious, and doesn’t break continuity to throw it in, so it’s nice to see… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-e-spoilers/243628.md?page=6)