# Enterprise: Horizon spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 16, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992 "2003-04-16T01:37:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/41 "2003-04-17T05:36:29Z")
And now that you’ve got me going into my collection of _Star Trek_ related reference guides: I note that the _Star Trek Chronology_ says that, according to the ST:TOS episode “A Piece of the Action”, the starship U.S.S. Horizon accidentally gives the Iotians the book on how to behave like Chicago gangsters in the year 2168. And according to that episode, in that year (2168), **subspace radio had not been invented yet** and the only means the U.S.S. Horizon had to send a signal through space was good old-fashioned real radio (which travels, by definition, at Warp 1). And yet, in the new _Enterprise_ series, the NX-01 is supposed to have subspace radio capability in the year 2151 – 17 years **before** the original series established that subspace radio hadn’t been invented yet! _I call foul!_ ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/42 "2003-04-17T05:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > \*\*[Upcoming Spoilers!!!](http://www.trektoday.com/news/160403_03.shtml) > (there are spoilers there) \*\* * * * It was reassuring to read this, because the stuff they posted at [www.startrek.com](http://www.startrek.com) had me worried that the season 2 finale would take us into Lost Ship Voyager territory. Whew. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/43 "2003-04-17T06:01:28Z")
Then again, the above-linked-to spoilers introduce yet **another** super-powerful enemy we’ve never seen or heard about on _Trek_ before, thereby breaking continuity yet **again.** ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/44 "2003-04-17T06:04:06Z")
Not really. Just because they haven’t been mentioned doesn’t mean they don’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/45 "2003-04-17T06:33:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Then again, the above-linked-to spoilers introduce yet **another** super-powerful enemy we’ve never seen or heard about on _Trek_ before, thereby breaking continuity yet **again.** \*\* they don’t mention them because Archer kills them all and bathes in their children’s blood! He also kills them Mars Attacks enemies from _Silent Enemy_ and that spitting alien race. And letss not forget his Suliban extermination. The Federation gets founded due to Genocide-o-rama! Archer also disinvents Subspace radio. Then Hoshi gets naked… ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/46 "2003-04-17T07:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > Travis’s family has been running an interstellar freighter for 3 generations. Do you mean to tell me that in all that time, no one had ever developed commercially viable warp engines that could exceed warp 2? And that the Enterprise represented this sudden quantum leap (if you’ll pardon the expression) of warp technology where, overnight, they could now travel at warp 5? Yes. They’ve gone into this a couple of times in the series. The Enterprise _is_ just such a quantum leap; that’s kind of the whole point. You say that Warp 3 would completely outclass Warp 2. This is true, but I think that the fastest human ship they’ve encountered had a top speed of Warp 2.2. It was in “Fortunate Son”, so you can watch that for the _real_ number. Terra Nova was 20 light-years from Earth and it took the original colonists nine years to reach it. Humans really were used to slogging around through space, taking months or years to go from one system to another. As for them having sub-space radio… I don’t know. But you know what I think about _TOS_ as far as continuity goes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/47 "2003-04-17T11:28:50Z")
First I gotta say how much I _really hate_ when a thread is going along nicely and then someone has the flaming need to hijack it for _no good reason_! Show a little decorum people! Also, did you see T’Pol eat her popcorn WITH HER HANDS!?! Ewwwww!!! ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/48 "2003-04-17T12:28:42Z")
Oh, man, **Rue** - you’re right; in that episode with the breadsticks, she insisted on using a knife and fork. I think she’s been among those piggy disgusting humans too long. **Stacks o’ Spoilers below…** So I thought this was an okay episode. It fleshed out Travis a little, which he desperately needed. Though I don’t really LIKE the personality they gave him. “Oh, Lt. Reed showed me how to do this,” “Captain Archer always says…,” “Commander Tucker could fix it!” He’s like, I dunno, Porthos, or something. Have an idea of your OWN for once, kid! It’s interesting that all he talked about on the cargo ship was stuff they did on Enterprise, and all he ever talks about on Enterprise (when he does talk) is his colorful cargo-hauling childhood. He also seemed to have a little big of ego, over the upgrades he was doing. I mean, I know he was trying to help, but who goes and tinkers with a spaceship without asking the ship’s captain, first? I think that shows a little immaturity, which I actually like, because we learn that Travis, though a navigational prodigy (or “natural stick and rudder man,” which sounds like a _double entendre_, but probably isn’t), is still pretty young and inexperienced. I was kind of bummed that he had to save the day, because it was so thoroughly predictable, and was a painfully Wesley Crusher-esque moment. Little punk ass know-it-all proves his detractors wrong by defeating the bad guys against seemingly insurmountable odds. Yawn. **Engel** mentioned the Families and Psychologists Conversation in the above spoiler-box-ified post. I also thought that was a cute and funny scene, because little self-consciousness references like that amuse me. As to the sub-plots, going to watch the volcanic planet blow itself to pieces seemed pretty pointless, but I understand the writers needed to come up with something for Enterprise to be DOING, while Travis off having sibling rivalry, and it couldn’t be something that takes up a lot of time or energy (they had to leave space for the movie-watching thing, after all). When Trip said “I talked Chef into doing a little something different…” I started having naughty thoughts, but those went away, when the something different involved Frankenstein. I was a little annoyed by everyone’s insistance that T’Pol watch the film. Let the poor lady have a night off. She’s got a headache, and her back’s probably sore; let her get some sleep! It also creeped me out when Archer cajoled her into a date. I feel like that’s kind of unprofessional. But whatever. I liked that Phlox wouldn’t shut the hell up during the movie. Very much what I would have expected from his character. Also, it looked like Archer and T’Pol were double dating with Trip and Phlox. Which is super cute (but surely wasn’t the intended impression). So there you have it. Over all, I’ll give this episode a B. Decent, interesting, kinda boring. Thank you for your time. Please fill out the comment cards, and don’t forget to tip your waitress. ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/49 "2003-04-17T12:31:16Z")
Jeezis, that was a long post. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/50 "2003-04-17T12:40:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*1). > > NX-01 is supposed to have subspace radio capability in the year 2151 – 17 years **before** the original series established that subspace radio hadn’t been invented yet! > > _I call foul!_ \*\* Hoshi mentioned that she could use one of the devices they drop behind them, (I hesitate to call it a communications satellite, since it isn’t orbiting anything) “Echo 1” to link the planetray data to Admiral Forrest. ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/51 "2003-04-17T12:44:18Z")
Oh yeah. I completely forgot to talk about the episode. I agree with pretty much everything **Kn\*ckers** said. But, although I understand why Travis was being so indignant, it didn’t sit right with me. His plan sounded way far-fetched, and he might have gotten them all killed. Of course, once the bad guys demanded more than just cargo, that all changed. The volcano planet was too cool to waste on a throw-away plotline like that, but I did like the movie plotline. T’Pol seemed significantly different to me, though. Was this a new writer, by any chance? Why would she have back problems, though? She has the best posture on the ship. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/52 "2003-04-17T13:25:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Hoshi mentioned that she could use one of the devices they drop behind them… “Echo 1” to link… \*\* What episode were _you_watching **Carni**? They used “Echo _ **3** _”. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/53 "2003-04-17T13:57:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rue DeDay \* > \*\*They used “Echo _ **3** _” \*\* I stand corrected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/54 "2003-04-17T16:08:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by carnivorousplant \* > \*\*Hoshi mentioned that she could use one of the devices they drop behind them, (I hesitate to call it a communications satellite, since it isn’t orbiting anything) “Echo [3]” to link the planetray data to Admiral Forrest. \*\* These deep-space communications relays are there to boost the **range** of subspace communications. These comm buoys would still have to use subspace radio to relay messages from one to the next, if they’re to have any hope of sending messages at speeds faster than a starship can travel. Yet, in “A Piece of the Action”, they established that subspace communications hadn’t been invented even 16 years after the second season of _Enterprise_, and that light-speed radio was the only way to send messages across interstellar distances (besides putting a scroll in a courier’s hand and sending him out on a starship, like they did in _Dune_). ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/55 "2003-04-17T16:19:43Z")
I have to agree with you **tracer** - clearly they just weren’t thinking of continuity when they made “A Piece of the Action”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/56 "2003-04-17T16:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*These deep-space communications relays are there to boost the **range** of subspace communications. \*\* I hate being wrong. Enterprise is 150 light years from Earth; how far is Iotia? ^:dubious:^ ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/57 "2003-04-17T17:53:11Z")
What **Kn\*ckers** said. Nice that they’d make an attempt at fleshing out Travis’s heretofore nonexistent character, but half-ass execution. Not a horrible episode (like those Klingon marauders or the amazing disappearing Hoshi), but not terrifically exciting, either. Re the writer: The script was by Andre Bormanis, who started out as science advisor on TNG before contributing to a few teleplays on DS9 and Voyager. Earlier in _Enterprise_, he wrote that shitty episode where Hoshi spends a ship-threatening crisis trying to figure out what Reed wants for his birthday. Some pretty good acting by Anthony Montgomery, but it’s wasted on a boring story. Here’s the big emotional scene. Here’s the reunion that doesn’t go exactly smoothly. Here’s the tension. Here’s the conflict. Here’s the crisis of confidence. Here’s the resolution where the hero saves everybody’s lives. Here’s the heartfelt goodbye that indicates everything’s going to be okay. Like **Kn\*ckers** said: Yawn. I mean, don’t get me wrong: I’ve been harping all along on the false suspense in the show, where they try to convince us Archer will die when the mine explodes or Archer will be executed by the fascist government or Archer will be stuck on a Klingon prison world forever or Archer gets his arm cut off when he falls against a helicopter rotor — uh, sorry, wrong show. The point is, it’s nice to see them attempt to give the characters some depth by exploring their emotional conflicts. We don’t learn anything about the characters as human beings if they’re totally sure of themselves and they have all the answers and all they have to do is outrace a threat or figure out a puzzle. Instead, characters have depth when they _don’t_ know what to do, or when their decisions go haywire and they have to live with the consequences, like in that episode where they muddled around in that war and probably accidentally triggered worldwide genocide. Or better yet, characters become real when their relationships change, and they think differently of one another in the long term. Right now on _Enterprise_, every storyline between Archer and T’Pol goes like this: One of the two thinks he/she knows better how to cope with something, the other gently mocks the first, the first decides to trust the second after all, everything works out okay. How is that interesting? So “Horizon” makes an attempt to change the dynamics between people, which is of course much more interesting dramatically than trying to follow the steps of a mechanical procedure in order to (1) disarm a mine (2) recalibrate a torpedo (3) fill the ship with happy gas (4) fill in the blank, but it makes the same mistake it made with the Klingon trial episode: _It puts the emphasis on the supporting characters._ How does Travis change in this episode? At the beginning of the show, he’s happy in Starfleet. He gets bad news. He visits home. He sees his brother is screwing up his first command. (Why wasn’t mom promoted instead?) He knows what his brother is doing wrong, and he has all the answers about how to make things better. He is proven right. In the end, he goes back to Starfleet. _The people who change in the episode are his brother and, to a lesser extent, his mother._ We don’t care about them. We want to see _Travis_ changed by his experience. He’s the one in whom we’re supposed to have the long-term investment. He learned nothing from his experience, really. His brother had an excellent point about who’s going to be responsible for repairing the upgraded systems, and Travis blows him off and goes and works on the weapons anyway, without any negative consequences. If this show were smart, we’d come back to Travis’s family in two seasons and learn that the weapons blew up while the freighter crew was trying to do maintenance, and Travis’s brother was killed; _then_ there would be repercussions and character growth and learning from life’s mistakes. That won’t happen, though. As it is, it’s just another placeholder episode in the adventures of the self-righteous and pure. So they finally tried to do exactly what I’ve been asking them to do for months, and they screwed it up, because they don’t know how to think about their characters long-term. Hell, I don’t think they even know who Travis really _is._ We just spent a whole hour with him, and he’s still a cipher. Think about it: We learned more about Captain Malcolm Reynolds on _Firefly_ in the five seconds it took him to walk up the ramp and without blinking shoot that bad guy Simon was wrestling with in the head than we learned in a whole hour’s episode focusing on Travis. That, folks, is inadequate writing. More and more, I think Berman and Braga simply don’t know what they’re doing. The team is working really hard, but they’re working on the wrong things. There’s lots of fireworks and kafuffle, but we don’t know anything about these characters we didn’t know after the pilot episode. That’s truly disappointing, because the whole reason to engage in series television is the characters. In rare instances, we watch for stories (the inventions of _Twilight Zone_ or the legal convolutions of _Law and Order_, for example), but much more commonly we decide to dedicate an hour a week to a show because we like spending time with the people. We can forgive a subpar episode of _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ because we got to see Xander pop off or Willow share that shy smile or Buffy make a horrible pun before launching into combat. When we get a subpar episode of _Enterprise_, there’s nothing left to fall back on, because these characters have barely more life in them than their action figures. (By the way, _Firefly_ will be released on DVD within the next couple of months including the three unaired episodes. No solid date yet.) Now, I’m ranting, when I didn’t mean to. But I can’t help but be frustrated, week after week, with the overwhelming sense of missed potential. They’ve got a good setup, and a rich mix of prospectively colorful characters — but they keep missing the boat. They keep putting the focus on the supporting cast instead of the primary players, and they resolutely refuse to let anybody make lasting mistakes and learn from them. It’s like that scene in _Life of Brian_ where a thousand centurions hustle into a room, conduct a search, hustle out, and report they found a spoon. They’re obviously highly organized and motivated and worked really hard at what they thought their job, but they had no clue what they were doing and produced something totally irrelevant. Oh, and I also noticed T’Pol eating with her hands. That bugged me. Sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Rue\_DeDay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/41988e/32.png) [@Rue\_DeDay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rue_DeDay)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/58 "2003-04-17T18:00:52Z")
Maybe the Earth-boys don’t have subspace radios, but maybe we’ve contracted it out. I mean the boomers are stuck with the Warp 2 ships (that Ephraim Cochrain himself sat in the warp core there of) but there are a bunch of guys flitting around at warp 6. (Klingons? Vulcans? They both go faster than _Enterprise,_ don’t they?) They just sub-contract the long distance service. Like 10-10-220 only without Carrot Top. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/59 "2003-04-17T18:00:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\* > > If this show were smart, we’d come back to Travis’s family in two seasons and learn that the weapons blew up while the freighter crew was trying to do maintenance, and Travis’s brother was killed; _then_ there would be repercussions and character growth and learning from life’s mistakes. > \*\* That’s an outstanding idea. ---
**Author:** ![Kn\_ckers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/96bed5/32.png) [@Kn\_ckers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kn_ckers)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2003, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992/60 "2003-04-17T18:48:39Z")
Yeah, **Cervaise** , Horizon Revisited would indeed be a very neat thing to see. It is good that they’re TRYING to develop the characters, we can only hope that they’ll eventually learn how… I have nothing else to add at this juncture, because my day has gone to shit in a shitbasket, and I desperately want to hijack with a whiny, ranty post, but I promised to stay on topic. So you can all move along, there’s nothing to see here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-horizon-spoilers/168992.md?page=4)