# Enterprise Kir'Shara Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965 "2004-12-03T21:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/21 "2004-12-04T02:42:06Z")
They had brow ridges then? I’m not sure I like that. In one of the Dominion War episodes of DS9, Bashir, Martok, Worf, and Garak shared a cell with a Breen and a Romulan and the Romulan was smooth browed, just like a Vulcan, so obviously the brow ridge isn’t universal. If they are going to be spying on their brethern, they should look as Vulcan like as possible and sent someone without the pronounced bulge. And I don’t know if I like that they were shown, even if only to one character. I’d much prefer their involvement be through inference. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/22 "2004-12-04T02:47:01Z")
In _Balance of Terror_, Spock doesn’t know about the Romulans; he suspects they are related to the Vulcans. Is it canon that “those who follow the raptor” fled Vulcan, or is it from a book? Is it known that they are now the Romulans? They’ll have to kill off some characters to preserve canon. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/23 "2004-12-04T02:47:29Z")
Just popping in here to note, without reading the thread, that it seems that my local UPN station has deemed Class 2A high school fucking football more worthy than a part 3-of-3 Enterprise episode. Grr. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/24 "2004-12-04T02:48:15Z")
According to rumor, Manny has a Rommie/Reman arc planned for Feb. Remans as in the Noseratu guys we saw on that last movie. :dubious: Though I’m not thrilled about that bit, I can’t help but be a little bit excited as to how they will figure in, because (again, according to rumor) Manny is really excited about the story. So, we shall see, but not soon. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/25 "2004-12-04T02:56:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > In _Balance of Terror_, Spock doesn’t know about the Romulans; he suspects they are related to the Vulcans. Is it canon that “those who follow the raptor” fled Vulcan, or is it from a book? Is it known that they are now the Romulans? They’ll have to kill off some characters to preserve canon. “The Raptor” thing is completely new to me and, as far as I know, new to continuity as of this storyline. Romulans were referred to as “The Sundered” in the novels dealing with Rihannsu history and culture that I’ve read, which is all but two unless there’s been one written in the past few years that I’m unaware of. > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > According to rumor, Manny has a Rommie/Reman arc planned for Feb. > > Remans as in the Noseratu guys we saw on that last movie. > > Though I’m not thrilled about that bit, I can’t help but be a little bit excited as to how they will figure in, because (again, according to rumor) Manny is really excited about the story. While I intensely dislike the Remans from what we know of them, they do give Coto an easy out 'cause they’re said to be used as shock troops by the Romulans in _Nemesis_. If we get the war, it would be completely within established canon for the Romulans to use them for cannon fodder. The only problem is that in TOS, no one knows what the Romulans look like at all. If they see Remans in ENT, they’ll think they’re Romulans and then that will contradict canon as well, although not quite in the way everyone is dreading. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/26 "2004-12-04T03:08:52Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > my local UPN station has deemed Class 2A high school fucking football more worthy I am offering Canadian CDs for a nominal fee to those who will become my sock puppet bitches. The brow ridges developed during STNG, did they not, just as Klingon makeup changed. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/27 "2004-12-04T03:14:43Z")
Yes. They made their first appearance in _The Neutral Zone_, the last episode of S1. It’s also worth mentioning that that episode marked the debut of _D’deridex_ class Warbirds and Marc Alaimo, better known as Gul Dukat. He played one of the Romulan commanders. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/28 "2004-12-04T04:36:47Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Yes. They made their first appearance in _The Neutral Zone_, the last episode of S1. And they blew it off next season, just like they blew off the shrimp/scorpion thingies that were taking over Star Fleet and sent a message home. They were never heard from again. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/29 "2004-12-04T04:39:22Z")
They blew what off? Romuland brow ridges? What? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/30 "2004-12-04T05:11:36Z")
They didn’t follow up on “We are back.” Nor did they use the scorpion things again, even though they’d sent a messge home before Riker and Picard de-Prime Directized them. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/31 "2004-12-04T05:26:06Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > They blew what off? Romuland brow ridges? What? Wait, so the Romulans are from Romuland? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/32 "2004-12-04T05:37:18Z")
Might as well be as it’s a transliteration of ch’Rihan anyway. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/33 "2004-12-04T05:45:51Z")
Good ending with a twist for this arc, which I found stronger, overall, than the Soong bit. These are the most emotional Vulcans I have ever seen–but that makes sense, since Vlasicpickle has been in league with the Rommies. I was glad Koss released T’Pol from marriage (sort of like the Islamic deal where they can divorce by saying “I divorce you” three times and it’s done), but it still seemed kind of quick and easy. When Quantum opened up the Kir’Shara, I swear I saw the Matrix. I totally missed the nipple-thingies. But then, I tend not to notice such things. Will Quantum still be able to nerve-pinch others now that the katra is gone? I am a bit surprised that Trip didn’t get in any trouble for defying an admiral. Combs and Graham were great in the interrogation scenes. I think Soval will have some repercussions. **Aes** , your tapes are piling up. When do you think I should send them? Any estimates? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/34 "2004-12-04T05:52:33Z")
No idea. I’m still home and don’t expect to be able to work again for at least another month and a half. And that’s being optimistic… a full recovery’s four months, which would put it at the end of February or the beginning of March. You can send them to me as you wish though. I just won’t be able to watch them for a while. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/35 "2004-12-04T05:55:23Z")
Okay, yet again, I dug it. Feels like the show is springing up out of the grave, huh? I’ll have more to say after a second viewing. For now: > [@NoClueBoy](#): > > What is wrong with Soval’s right ear? Near the tip is either a scar or a not put on right prosthetic. It’s a scar. He had deep scrapes across his ear immediately following the bombing, and they’ve been slowly “healing” them across the three episodes. Kind of a neat detail, I thought. ---
**Author:** ![tarragon918](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d26b3c/32.png) [@tarragon918](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tarragon918)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/36 "2004-12-04T06:13:30Z")
I am -thoroughly- pleased with the Vulcan-centric arc! Glad that T’Pau was able to “fix” T’Pol’s mind-meld disorder. Boy, the High Command was almost Nazi-like in it’s control, especially of information. I kept wondering what V’las(ic Pickle)'s motivation was too–and I’m still uncertain as to why the Rihannsu chose him to interact with. **Aesiron** , I’m currently reading a “Lost Era” Trek novel called “Catalyst of Sorrows” (with main character of Uhura as well as Tuvok, Beverly Crusher, McCoy, and Sisko as well)–it’s Rihannsu-centric. The author is Margaret Wander Bonnano and it tells of some Rihannsu not having that prominent ridge. I’m really enjoying this book so far, enough that I’m going to look for other “lost era” novels now, I think. 🙂 If **NoClueBoy** is right about the rumors, I can’t wait until February for the Rihannsu-centric arc! I know some folks don’t accept ST novels as canon, but honestly if you read the books, you get a better insight into the different cultures. Or at least I do, that is. Heh, it’s sort of like reading about history … except it’s all made up history. (HUSH! Yes, I know … ST is all too real to some of us. ;)) At any rate, so far this season has been most enjoyable, although I would like to see more of the rest of the cast. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/37 "2004-12-04T06:21:41Z")
I really don’t like it when they mix and match too many characters… how the hell did they come up with that mix? Tuvok and McCoy I can see as Tuvok’s Vulcan but Sisko and Beverly? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/38 "2004-12-04T06:30:11Z")
Good show, better than last week but not quite as good as the first of the arc. Great denoument for any Star Trek geek such as myself. I understand that there have been more than a few complaints about departures from canon over the last few seasons, but the folks who put this arc together seem to be on the ball, playing around with the unexpected and working it into the canon. That being the case, I don’t think they’re likely to screw around with the idea that nobody knows what the Romulans look like in _Balance of Terror_. Seems easy enough to me to start a battle/war without the Romulans revealing themselves to the other side, since they seem to be intent on secrecy, at least based on the 30 seconds from the end of tonight’s show. God help me, I may actually continue watching this series. Though if they kill everyone on the ship except for Captain Wooden and the Vulcan hottie, I doubt I could tell the difference. Sheesus, is this like a crew entirely comprised of _Landing Party Man No. 5_ or what? ---
**Author:** ![Rich\_Mann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@Rich\_Mann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rich_Mann)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/39 "2004-12-04T06:51:14Z")
> [@Jonathan Archer](#): > > …and don’t give me any lectures about ‘the needs of the many,’ I get enough of that **crap** from…from T’pol. So, how do those of us who complained of overuse of the phrase feel about _this_ use? ---
**Author:** ![spiralscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@spiralscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spiralscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/40 "2004-12-04T07:38:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > …just like they blew off the shrimp/scorpion thingies that were taking over Star Fleet and sent a message home. They were never heard from again. > ☹ And we can all thank Og for that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965.md?page=3)