# Enterprise Kir'Shara Spoilers **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 3, 2004, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965 "2004-12-03T21:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/41 "2004-12-04T07:54:32Z")
Why does Shran say that Archer owes him TWICE? Helping out during the final confrontation with the Xindi superweapon was one, bu what did he do for Archer this time? At first I thought it had to do with the transport codes, but that was apparently T’Pol’s husband. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![spiralscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@spiralscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spiralscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/42 "2004-12-04T08:00:54Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > Why does Shran say that Archer owes him TWICE? Helping out during the final confrontation with the Xindi superweapon was one, bu what did he do for Archer this time? At first I thought it had to do with the transport codes, but that was apparently T’Pol’s husband. What am I missing? This was about Shran covering Enterprise’s ass when the Vulcans were firing on it, I believe. Though I would think that warning the Andorians of the impending Vulcan attack would make things square. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/43 "2004-12-04T08:18:29Z")
> [@spiralscratch](#): > > This was about Shran covering Enterprise’s ass when the Vulcans were firing on it, I believe. I would think that Shran would consider Tucker to be the one owing him the favor, in that case. ---
**Author:** ![spiralscratch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@spiralscratch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spiralscratch)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/44 "2004-12-04T09:22:48Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I would think that Shran would consider Tucker to be the one owing him the favor, in that case. But it’s Archer’s ship. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/45 "2004-12-04T13:34:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > And they blew it off next season, just like they blew off the shrimp/scorpion thingies that were taking over Star Fleet and sent a message home. They were never heard from again. > ☹ That was my favorite episode of TNG…I was pissed they let the whole thing die. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/46 "2004-12-04T14:38:40Z")
So, what’s the backstory between T’Pau (who I agree is a total cutie) and V’Las, anyway? There definitely seemed to be something _personal_ in that rant he delivered at the end there in the council chamber; I think he even said something about how she’d tried to “corrupt” him personally. Were they lovers? (He seems a bit old for her.) Is she his estranged daughter? Or were they just mentor-protege or master-padawan or whatever they call it on Vulcan? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/47 "2004-12-04T14:49:07Z")
Good questions, Mister Mod. In a future arc, we should see more T’Pau (speculation only, not a spoiler) and will learn just how powerful her influence is. She will have the backing of the priests and will be the major force behind the Movement For A Bettter Vulcan Society. And we’ll see her naked. (I wish) ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/48 "2004-12-04T15:05:40Z")
“The priests have finished translating the Kir’Shara. According to this one passage, Surok taught that clothing is an abomination.” (Of course, for continuity reasons it will have to later be discovered that this was a mistranslation, along the lines of the “[72 virgins/72 raisins](http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html)” thing, since in TOS and later series Vulcans don’t all run around nekkid.) ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/49 "2004-12-05T03:39:43Z")
> [@drewbert](#): > > my local UPN station has deemed Class 2A high school fucking football more worthy A high school is fucking a football?!? :eek: Not all at the same time, I hope. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/50 "2004-12-05T04:54:48Z")
Have I ever mentioned how proud I am that my threads inspire literate, intelligent conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/51 "2004-12-05T04:55:57Z")
You have non-Trek related OPs? ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/52 "2004-12-05T05:07:55Z")
In TOS, given the technology of the 60’s, we could imagine a space war where the two sides never saw the other. Today, and in the technology of Enterprise, it is totally unimaginable that there could be an Earth-Romulan war without seeing the other side. You’d be able to beam aboard at least one dead enemy floating in space. I don’t know where or how to prove it, but, as I’ve said in the other thread, I’m pretty sure Generations and the later series and the movies let go of the ‘canon’ that humans never saw a Romulan’s face in the first Romulan war. Treat it like TOS warp drive and star date enumeration… revised. Peace. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/53 "2004-12-05T05:11:46Z")
They did no such thing. As a diehard Rommie fanboy, I’d know if they did. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/54 "2004-12-05T05:37:29Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > Today, and in the technology of Enterprise, it is totally unimaginable that there could be an Earth-Romulan war without seeing the other side. If the Romulans didn’t transmit how would you see them? If they destroy their ships rather than face capture as in _Balance of Terror_ how would you know what they look like? Your boarding party would get nuked when the Rommies destroyed their ship. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/55 "2004-12-05T05:48:53Z")
> [@tarragon918](#): > > I know some folks don’t accept ST novels as canon, but honestly if you read the books, you get a better insight into the different cultures. One simply _must_ have some standards, old boy. One can’t let every piece of fan fic that some moronic publisher buys become binding on the Star Trek Bible, if you will. Why, those nasty slash things would be considered binding. Seriously, publisher aren’t interested in preserving continuity, they’re interested inmaking money. Paramount is interested in making money and keeping the story straight. My opinion is that they should use “ridges lite” as they did in STNG _Reunification_. Go here [http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68520.html](http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/TNG/episode/68520.html) And click on “Spock and a Romulan” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/56 "2004-12-05T05:52:33Z")
> [@moriah](#): > > I’m pretty sure Generations and the later series and the movies let go of the ‘canon’ You are obviously a heretic and a Star Wars person. Aroint thee! Aesiron will now escort you from the room. Please go quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/57 "2004-12-05T06:17:44Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > One simply _must_ have some standards, old boy. > One can’t let every piece of fan fic that some moronic publisher buys become binding on the Star Trek Bible, if you will. > > Why, those nasty slash things would be considered binding. Some of the Trek novels are nothing more than slash but to paint them all with the same brush isn’t wise, especially when Diane Duane and her \*\*\*excellent \*\*\*portrayal of Rihannsu culture in her four novels that’re mainly concerned with them. She also wrote _Spock’s World_, which was the first best selling Trek novel and one of the better books written in the genre. ---
**Author:** ![drewbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drewbert/32/15890_2.png) [@drewbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewbert)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/58 "2004-12-06T00:40:06Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > A high school is fucking a football?!? :eek: > > Not all at the same time, I hope. They’re blaming it on budget cuts, but I really wouldn’t know. BTW, in the DS9 relaunch series of books, eventually: the stop-action bluegill conspiracy critters thingy gets resolved, finally. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/59 "2004-12-06T16:20:33Z")
I thought the episode tied up the loose ends and allows the series to begin again. The technical storyline has holes in it, but what I ended up with was a feeling that the characters have been reborn. Archer has his weight lifted from him. Now they should be able to make him a three-dimensional character with more than just a scowl for an expression. T’Pol has some of her “disease” removed, gets that husband off her back, and has been exposed to true Vulcan philosophies. Seeing their impact on T’Pau and her own mother, she has a chance to create her own new identity as a modern Vulcan. Trip also has grown from interfering with cogenitors to making the Big command decisions. Unfortunately everyone else gets no air time. This arc-ending gives me hope for the series being character driven and battling tough issues. The next (new) episode will begin Season 1; what we’ve seen are Seasons -1, -2, etc. Technical nitpicks:[ul][li]Archer walking along, expounding, and then saying “we’ve got to get this _thing_ to the High Command.” A little more reverence please.[_]I suppose the Syrranites, having lived in the Forge, would know more about Gallicite, but it still seemed odd that the Vulcan police were caught unawares in that canyon.[_]A puny human fighting the Vulcans seems ludicrous. He may have some Vulcan knowledge, but he’s winded, sunburned, and should not be able to stand up to Vulcan physiology. :([_]Wow, fake green Vulcan blood is just as bright as fake red human blood![_]Did you notice that alongside the lead Vulcan ship attacking the Andorians were two bent-wing assault TIE fighters? :eek:[_]Surak had holographic technology 1800 years ago? ☹ I thought Vulcan technology would have advanced a bit faster than that. Okay, someone could have transcribed it, but the conversations were along the lines of the Kir’Shara being the real original.[_]Koss’ divorce didn’t seem to fit. Since he blackmailed T’Pol into it in the first place, what would it matter to him if mom died?[_]I liked T’Pol’s green bruise; good makeup.[_]Did you get the feeling that Archer’s hand displaying the Vulcan salute was someone else’s. Not that it wasn’t, just that it was very deliberate and the fingers were painfully wide spread.[/ul]I can’t put my finger on it, but I liked T’Pol’s outburst of, “This has nothing to do with science!” I feel she was closed minded about examining the Kir-Shara for what it actually has and right in not wanting to follow unsubstantiated Vulcan mysticism. It felt like an emotional outburst against following this cult that got her mother killed and a logical outburst against treating this unanalyzed object and Archer’s mental state as valid without proof.[/li] I loved T’Pau tossing Archer and remaining quite logical throughout the event. I liked that T’Pau didn’t suddenly become the leader of Vulcan. Having the minister question V’Las and then turn on him in the end begs the question of why didn’t he and the rest of the Council turn on him sooner? V’Las was starting a war, so what did the minister think would happen when the fleet attacked Andoria - a bloodless coup? I think they did well connecting the emotional Vulcan High Command to the Romulans and the attempt at reunification. A nice twist on Spock doing the same thing on Romulus in TNG. As Archer, said about humanity when the Vulcans said they weren’t going to interfere anymore - so we say about good Enterprise episodes - “We’re ready.” Trek News[sup]We Report[/sup][sub]You Deride[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2004, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965/60 "2004-12-06T17:19:00Z")
In addition:[ul][_]Re: tossing the lurpa to the Vulcan police officer - watch that weight distribution - it almost decapitated the guy![_]In the end, why is V’Las free to wander around in caves and talk to Romulans? Shouldn’t he be under arrest for treason?Did the head of security (who planted the bomb) have a slight Romulan-ish brow ridging?[/ul] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/enterprise-kirshara-spoilers/277965.md?page=4)